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> Question about body armor vs. micro uzi, Hyper Realism of Drama!
Wounded Ronin
post May 11 2005, 04:12 PM
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OK, I have a firearms realism question which pertains to armor.

Supposing I was wearing some armor on my torso which was rated as NIJ level IIIA. And I'm standing there minding my own business, when all of a sudden someone leaps out from around the corner with a micro uzi fully loaded with its 20 round 9mm magazine capacity. From point blank range, he unloads the full 20 rounds directly into my armor while distracting me with some joke about "duck!".

What happens to me?
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Arethusa
post May 11 2005, 04:17 PM
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Assuming we're talking about modern body armor (with its propensity to fail on subsequent hits in the same area), there's a decent chance a couple rounds'll go through.
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mfb
post May 11 2005, 04:28 PM
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at the very least, you'll probably be laying on the ground, trying to breathe while the guy reloads. it'd be like being punched in the chest 20 times by a strong guy, except all in the course of about three seconds.
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Arethusa
post May 11 2005, 04:32 PM
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That too. However, the more rigid the armor, the better your chances of shrugging it off. 20 rounds, though, is going to hurt no matter what.
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The Other DSE
post May 11 2005, 04:38 PM
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What about "soft" damage from those rounds, even if they don't penetrate? I'm guessing several broken ribs are almost certain.

Honest question here: Could that kind of "blunt" trauma end up causing lung collapse or something? Or do lungs only collapse if they're actually pierced?

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Aku
post May 11 2005, 04:50 PM
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I think they only collapse when pierced or can optherwise lose thier internal preassure causing them to deflate. You could bruise them i suppose however, and i would think that would be the most likely damage done, as opposed to breaking several ribs, although i won't say i'm an injury expert by any means.
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Arethusa
post May 11 2005, 04:50 PM
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Lungs won't collapse unless punctured. You'd be having trouble breathing because you tend to have trouble breathing after getting the shit kicked out of you. Even if your armor holds up very well, you're going to be in a world of pain.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 11 2005, 05:01 PM
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Yeah, I figure a jump in heart rate into the 200 range will do that.
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Moon-Hawk
post May 11 2005, 05:06 PM
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Lungs collapse if the pleura gets punctured. (that's the place in between your lungs and your interior chest wall) It doesn't matter if it's punctred from the inside (punctured lung) or the outside. A fully intact lung can still collapse if the pleura is puntured.
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Austere Emancipa...
post May 11 2005, 05:06 PM
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What kind of ammo? With FMJs, yeah, I'd expect a few penetrations, depending on how many of the bullets hit very close to each other. With deforming or frangible rounds, you might even get lucky and not have a single penetration, since there's such a huge margin between that kind of threat and what III-A is designed to protect against (+P FMJs from a long SMG barrel with limited backface deformation).

A single hollowpoint at a III-A vest might not hurt bad, since the deformation should be around or under " in depth. Several close to each other, though, is going to hurt like hell whether they penetrate or not, no doubt about that, and there's a good chance that one of them is going to hit you in a spot where there's a bone very close to the skin (lower ribs, collarbones perhaps) which might lead to a fracture. However, unless there's a penetration or several, exluding psychological factors, you'll be operational in no time.

QUOTE (Arethusa)
20 rounds, though, is going to hurt no matter what.

When talking about flexible body armor and anything heftier than a .22, definitely.
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Smiley
post May 11 2005, 05:28 PM
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Who did you piss off to get shot 20 times??
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Critias
post May 11 2005, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
OK, I have a firearms realism question which pertains to armor.

Supposing I was wearing some armor on my torso which was rated as NIJ level IIIA. And I'm standing there minding my own business, when all of a sudden someone leaps out from around the corner with a micro uzi fully loaded with its 20 round 9mm magazine capacity. From point blank range, he unloads the full 20 rounds...while distracting me with some joke about "duck!".

What happens to me?

Since your "IRL" aspect seems to be heartily covered, I'd just like to take this opportunity to point out that if this was happening in Shadowrun, after laughing heartily about his duck joke, you'd find yourself mometarily deafened (though handled via appropriate cybernetic audio augmentations) and standing right in front of a life-sized cut out of you blasted into the wall right behind you, as every round miraculously misses. Then you'd try to kick him in the balls while he was in the middle of reloading, his Clubs roll would be better than your Unarmed, and he'd beat you silly on your action.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 11 2005, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE (Critias)
... standing right in front of a life-sized cut out of you blasted into the wall right behind you, as every round miraculously misses.

hahahaha

Oh, you kill me.
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Raygun
post May 12 2005, 07:36 AM
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Bust out with the magic eight ball.

NIJ IIIA-certified body armor is designed to absorb multiple hits, and IIIA would outclass any standard 9mm round from a Micro Uzi, so there is that going for you. But 20 direct hits from a couple of feet away at a ROF of 1,250 rpm (uh, all 20 rounds out of the gun in slightly less than one second)... Hmm.

Assuming the shooter had enough control over the gun to keep it pointed at your chest (not likely), if you just closed your eyes and ate it, you might be worse off than taking reactionary shift away that might spread the rounds over a larger area of the armor while also causing some to miss, assuming you didn't take any in a place that wasn't covered by armor... Moot, really.

I think there's a better chance that you'd be sleeping with the fishes in short order.
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