 Strategic vs Dramatic and my take on SR 4, this is a rather long diatribe |
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 May 30 2005, 06:11 PM
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#126
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Knight Templar  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 212 Joined: 20-June 04 From: Ipswich, UK Just South of the Stinkfens Member No.: 6,424  |
That's OK Taki.
I think the 'alea jacta est' moment has gone. If SR4 is to be ready by GenCon, I don't think there is time to change things now. We will have to just wait and see. |
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May 30 2005, 07:43 PM
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#127
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 778 Joined: 6-April 05 Member No.: 7,298 |
You have amply demonstrated the (hopefully) well-known irregularity in increasing TNs under the current system. But you have not demonstrated that the fixed TN system is better, because there are easy ways to improve the variable TN system so that it doesn't have much of an irregularity any more, and works over a much wider range of conditions without breaking. With a few patches to the fixed TN5 system, and careful resculpting of all the bonuses and penalties for actions, you could probably come up with something that didn't work much worse than the variable TN system. It wouldn't be as simple, though. And that's a powerful reason for being pessimistic that such patches will exist: they contradict the most likely motivation for moving to a fixed TN anyway. Given the problems I've identified, what would be the motivation beyond the feeling that, "Roll dice vs TN5--simple!" and "I had fun playing nWoD, and that's essentially what they use!".
I'm afraid of this also. I'm especially afraid of it since I haven't seen much feedback from freelancers or playtesters that indicates an awareness of the difference.
And I don't think there is either. First editions of games almost always have lots of glitches in their rules which are then ironed out to some extent in later editions. The nature of the change is such that SR4 is using the first edition of these rules, which means we add a proclivity to bugginess on top of time pressure on top of a dubious mechanic. To come out with an improved set of hard rules under these conditions would be a minor miracle. I think that there will be some areas of improvement, but plenty of areas where the change is for the worse. I also think that people will have great difficulty finding any improvement that could not have more easily been implemented without switching from a variable TN to a fixed TN system. |
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May 31 2005, 01:06 PM
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#128
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-April 05 From: France Member No.: 7,343 |
I still doesn't agree with variable ... Maybe because I am for soft rules (?), I must admit it isn't a easy way to get along with that kind of rpg way, but I had a lot of fun in it.
I do understand that a lot of people preferre hard rules, but I reckon SR4 will be more hard than soft anyway ! Thinking SR4 will be bad will probably help me being pleased by the result ;) |
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May 31 2005, 07:29 PM
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#129
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I just don't think we've seen enough statistical breakdown from the developers...have any of them analyzed the effect of a fixed TN like the people on this forum have?
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May 31 2005, 07:50 PM
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#130
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
In the thread I started about probability and statistics, the answer from one playtester/freelancer was yes, they are being considered. Of course we got nothing else, but we didn't expect it either.
I would have liked to have seen an explanation on the order of, "We looked at the probability of success for X and Y in SR3 and compared it to X an Y in SR4. We found Z." So all we have is a Yes and some hope and faith. |
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