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> Questions on staging and spirits (long), Need rules clarifications
post May 23 2005, 09:31 AM
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I'm relatively new to SR. I have been gaming (mostly as GM) for about 20 years and have been wanting to run a 'cyberpunk' style game for half of that! I bought SRII but never got around to putting the effort into preparing to run it. Then I bought SRIII but the same happened. I suppose initially I found the system a little complicated (as do my players now), and also I hated the idea of metahumans. Well I've bitten the bullet by learning the system and have solve the metahuman problem (there are none in my game, I just have mutants instead).

I have now put my players thru their (and my) first run. Based on my experience I decided this should be something I wrote myself rather than a published module so that I could improvise when I needed to rather than stop the game so that I could plough through the rules.

The game was very successful and we all enjoyed it, however I did find that in the firefights, the PCs were often close to being killed, and on one or two occasions I needed to fudge the dice rolls to ensure they didn't. So now I have revamped the PCs to make them a bit tougher (and taking advantage of some of the newer features in the Fanpro rule expansions). At least now it will be easier to make the opposition a bit tougher if I have gone too far the other way.

Anyway, there are two aspects to the rules which are still bugging me, and I have not been able to find any help in any of the books:

In parts of SRIII I have found two slightly confilicting descriptions. It states that D is the maximum level, but also that the stage up/down is based on the differences between the dice roll successes of the two parties.

I have assumed that the maximum of D should be calculated AFTER comparing the differences in successes. I.e. when my PCs fire on an opponent and score many successes, I get them to tell me the damage level plus any stages above D. Obviously it is often possible for some of them to say "D plus 2 stagings". I then make the damage resistance test and in this case need at least 3 stagings for the NPCs to survive.

Am I correct? I can't believe that the maximum damage level should be D before the damage resistance test...

a) Conjuring
During my first run, the PCs were fighting ghouls in an abandoned subway. The player of their shaman decided to conjure a spirit to help in the fight. So he asked me if he could conjure the spirit of a subway train. Now since in SRIII it specifically mentions a city spirit taking the form of a subway train, I thought this was OK.

So now that player assumes that there must be spirits of objects as well as living beings. This is fair, and the SR concept follows that idea with native american spiritualism as the basis of shamanic magic, and the openess to all other forms of spiritualism described in the Magic rules supplement.

So later in the run when I am trying out the rigger rules, I have the PCs in a car chase. The player of the shaman says "can I conjure the spirit of the car chasing us and command it to stop?". This took me by surprise and I was unable to get help from the rules. In the end I accepted, but gave the shaman a target modifier using the object resistance rules, 'cos I couldn't think of anything else at the time.

Since then I have checked all my sources and can't find an answer. So I told the player that his shaman can summon spirits only from the planes, and the rules don't allow for what he tried. Unfortunately both of use are left unsatisfied with this. I am still unhappy that since city spirits often appear as objects (garbage is described in SRIII), it implies that objects can have spirits.

I think the idea of a shaman actually summoning the spirit of an animate object to control it is reasonable, although clearly it should be much harder than conjuring a regular spirit. So any ideas on how I should rule this?

b) Spirit combat
The rules say that spirits use the regular combat rules. The book stats never mention combat skills for nature spirits, so presumably they must physically fight by defaulting to their strength attribute. Doesn't this make them fairly weak? This leads on to the question below.

c) Low force nature spirits
I'm just preparing the next adventure in which my shaman PC gets the chance to be initiated. On his astral quest ordeal he will encounter a nature spirit. According to the rules this will be force 2. So the spirit in question would do 0M damage in physical combat. I have taken this to mean it does NO physical damage - am I right? Admittedly it should fight astrally anyway, but the astral quest rules are fairly clear that physical combat is possible in the metaplane places.

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post May 23 2005, 01:52 PM
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Now my understanding is that only HARDENED armour (i.e. on vehicle) is such that if (half) the power of the attack does not exceed the rating the attack is incapable of doing damage.

Where does it state this for spirits?

This concerns me. I have just arranged for a new encounter for my players where their PCs will be attacked by a force 4 fire elemental. I realise that it will have armour 8 against the PCs, but was happy that this will just reduce its damage resistance TNs to 2 for most attacks. But if what you're saying is true then if the spellcasters were unable to attack the elemental it could wipe out the other PCs!
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Posts in this topic
- Dippy   Questions on staging and spirits (long)   May 23 2005, 09:31 AM
- - hobgoblin   unless i got it backwards you dont stage damage un...   May 23 2005, 09:44 AM
- - Ancient History   QUOTE Well I've bitten the bullet by learning ...   May 23 2005, 09:53 AM
- - Dippy   Thanks for the quick replies. QUOTE unless i got ...   May 23 2005, 01:15 PM
- - noname_hero   QUOTE 1) STAGING There is a difference between r...   May 23 2005, 01:36 PM
- - Dippy   Now my understanding is that only HARDENED armour ...   May 23 2005, 01:52 PM
- - noname_hero   SR3, pg. 264: In addition, if the Power of the dam...   May 23 2005, 02:08 PM
- - Dippy   Thanks, I've seen the same info in the Critter...   May 23 2005, 02:39 PM
- - toturi   QUOTE (Dippy @ May 23 2005, 10:39 PM) So what...   May 23 2005, 02:46 PM
- - hobgoblin   and can only be done in hand to hand combat. not s...   May 23 2005, 02:54 PM
- - noname_hero   Well... Yes, more or less. Mundanes are deep in tr...   May 23 2005, 03:20 PM
- - noname_hero   QUOTE (toturi) A mundane could theorectically brin...   May 23 2005, 03:21 PM
- - toturi   QUOTE (noname_hero) QUOTE (toturi @ May 23 20...   May 23 2005, 03:25 PM
- - Eyeless Blond   Also I seem to remember a rule about "element...   May 23 2005, 03:30 PM
- - noname_hero   QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ May 23 2005, 03:30 PM)...   May 23 2005, 03:46 PM
- - Bearclaw   QUOTE (noname_hero) SR3, pg. 264: In addition, if ...   May 23 2005, 03:52 PM
- - shadow_scholar   Do regular spirits and elementals even have Immuni...   May 23 2005, 04:41 PM
- - Herald of Verjigorm   The immunity to normal weapons is a side-effect of...   May 23 2005, 04:47 PM
- - hyzmarca   Leave a couple of longhandled (reach 2) brooms or...   May 24 2005, 11:37 AM
- - Eyeless Blond   With the ironic consequence that the Reach 2 pole ...   May 24 2005, 01:37 PM
- - Jrayjoker   Stand back you naughty spirit, or I will sweep you...   May 24 2005, 03:18 PM
- - Bearclaw   QUOTE (hyzmarca) Leave a couple of longhandled (re...   May 24 2005, 07:13 PM
- - Herald of Verjigorm   SR3 page 188. Under the bit on physical forms.   May 24 2005, 07:30 PM
- - hyzmarca   QUOTE (Bearclaw @ May 24 2005, 02:13 PM) Coul...   May 24 2005, 07:40 PM
- - Jrayjoker   I would treat them as separate attacks, even if yo...   May 24 2005, 09:01 PM

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