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> Dragon Kin, Book of Dragons from Earthdawn has them.
GaiasWrath8
post May 27 2005, 11:05 PM
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Ok, so if any one remebers earthdawn. They have dragon kin in the book of dragons. They got Astral sight, low light, and a +1 to Per and Wil.

So, what would a dragon kin get in Shadowrun? Any ideas, anything offical out there?
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hermit
post May 27 2005, 11:14 PM
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they are extinct. dragonkin had lifespans only double nof the ordinary ED elf, which means none of them made it through the 1st world. And dragons don't hump humans any more. Dot6W makes this very clear. Dragons have adopted strict rules against this. Any dragon who procreates with humans is considered a traitor and hunted down.

Guess IEs - who are derived from dragonkin - really pissed them off.
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GaiasWrath8
post May 27 2005, 11:21 PM
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OK, I got that most likley there are no more, but...

What about emortal elves breeding with some one and passing on dragon blood, or since we live in a really modern age, what about gean splicing a a few cells from a dragon who is in humand form with a human. Or maybe a dragon just falls in love and does the nasty with a human.

Any one has any ideas what would work for stats? I was thinking...
+1 Int, +1 Wil, Give them the ability of astral perseption and low light, and double there life.

Any thoughts?
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hermit
post May 27 2005, 11:34 PM
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1. Dragons don't fall in love. They are territorial, solitarily living reptiles who have no concept of love, not like humans do. Seeing another dragon immediately pisses a dragon off. They matre because a female decides she wants to lay eggs, then seeks out male dragons, fights a bit, then agrees with oen that he's a good donator, mates, then passes the eggs on to a great (whom she has to convince that her eggs are worthy for him tot ake care off), and after that, the female proceeds doing whatever dragons-y things she does.

So, no love involved. Dragons have no need to live with others, of their kind or other species, like humans do. They_'re no pack animals. they're solitary and fiercely territorial (though their intellect can help them overcome these feelings, they're always there). They don't fall in love, thus.

Also, dragons consider sex not particularily fun. Dot6W explicitly says so (and OQ pokes fun at humans making it their primary hobby).

Immortal elves procreating generates normal or more immortal elves, apparently, but no dragonkin (where would the scales be coming from then, anyway?).

And finally, dragon DNA isn't easy to come by. By far not. The last thing a dragon wants you to have is a ritual link to it. though it would propably fry you anyway, it would seriously tick the dragon off.

But, if we're talking about a somehow surviving Dragonkin (hey, kaers and stuff, maybe a pack with a horror for eternal life or being magically frozen?), I'd suggest elf mods and an additional +1 int, +1 will, dual nature, the scales SURGE effect and a hunted (6) flaw because everyone wants t gain hold of and study that poor being. And some dragons likely want it dead.
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FrostyNSO
post May 27 2005, 11:54 PM
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Did you read the section about Rhonawby (or however you spell it) and the Sea Dragon? It seemed R was very very enamoured with the Sea Dragon, so far as to seduce "her" through deception. It almost seemed as if R thought he might've been "in love".
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hermit
post May 28 2005, 12:16 AM
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Oh? That'd be a first, though. The section on dragon procreation, and other sources such as the ED dragons book, state otherwise.

I guess he wanted her as a lair mate, an ally, and an associate. Not as a lover, in the human sense, though. For all I know dragons aren't known to have an emotional makeup comparable to humans, and as their social structure is so different from ours, it wouldn't make sense if they did, anyway.
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Wireknight
post May 28 2005, 12:59 AM
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There are implications that Dunkelzahn, in human form, had emotional and romantic relationships with metahumans. Various sections from his will seem to indicate this.

However, that aside, there are two dragonkin in the Shadowrun universe. One is Akira Kageyama, whose name appears as the second bequeathment in the will. He is supposedly the offspring of Dunkelzahn and an artist or actress, I don't recall the specifics. The other is the triad agent named Dragon-Eyes, a magician adept with natural eyes that are solid white and yet confer normal or even enhanced sight. He initally appears in the Underworld Sourcebook as a lieutenant in the Tigers initiatory group/gang. His parentage is unknown but rumored to involve an Eastern dragon, possibly Lung or Masaru.
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winterhawk11
post May 28 2005, 03:53 AM
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QUOTE (FrostyNSO)
Did you read the section about Rhonawby (or however you spell it) and the Sea Dragon?  It seemed R was very very enamoured with the Sea Dragon, so far as to seduce "her" through deception.  It almost seemed as if R thought he might've been "in love".

The jury's out (and probably always will be) about whether Rhonabwy was in love with the Sea Dragon or with her *singing* (remember, he's a major music aficionado). Perhaps he thought that if he mated with her, their children would inherit her singing abilities. Seeing has how they didn't really have much time to court before he tricked her into mating with him, it's hard to believe that he had time to fall in love with her.

At least that was my take when I wrote the chapter. YMMV (and probably should, to fit with your vision of how you want your world to be).
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GaiasWrath8
post May 30 2005, 04:34 AM
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Very Cool info, Thanks for all the data, it has been helpful.
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Mortax
post May 30 2005, 04:44 AM
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QUOTE (hermit)
they are extinct. dragonkin had lifespans only double nof the ordinary ED elf, which means none of them made it through the 1st world. And dragons don't hump humans any more. Dot6W makes this very clear. Dragons have adopted strict rules against this. Any dragon who procreates with humans is considered a traitor and hunted down.

Guess IEs - who are derived from dragonkin - really pissed them off.

Um, wouldn't say extinct.
All the IE are at least decent from elves that were dragon kin, so the bloodlines are still there.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Alachia was sired by Alimas.

And if the Outcast is still alive, or someone who agreed with him.....
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Wireknight
post May 30 2005, 05:04 AM
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I think that the immortal elves aren't so much elf-stock dragonkin as they are elf-derived construct beings on the order of true drakes (i.e. the product of lifeshaping rituals). Dragon blood is part of them, but I imagine that they are by nature more hardy and magically powerful than something that's the result of simple breeding.
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Mortax
post May 30 2005, 05:09 AM
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I agree that that is a plausible explination, but I'm 90% certain I've read that IE are the result of dragons and elves. I don't remember where, I'll try to find it.
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Wireknight
post May 30 2005, 05:13 AM
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They are a result. I believe that Alamais is supposed to have "sired" the first, Alachia. I think they were a servitor race; more than simple dragonkin.
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hermit
post May 30 2005, 07:20 AM
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And they betrayed the dragons, which caused them to stop making them and instead start making drakes, IIRC.

Come to think of it, they were most likely behind the down-cycle hunting of dragons - which diminished the ranks of dragonkind significantly (and, of course, seriously pissed off dragons when they found out; however, since they haven't been able to pinpoint who actually did it, dragons decided to not act so far).

Anyway, Dragons (the ED book that never made it) stated that Dragonkin and IEs were two different things. Ancient History's site states that too.
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Mortax
post May 30 2005, 08:12 AM
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Hmm, this reminds me of something I've often wondered. Which IE participated in the hunting, or was it them at all?
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fistandantilus4....
post May 30 2005, 09:27 AM
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*pulls out magic eight ball* "my sources say..." Alachia

That's where my money would go.
Plus whichever skags were hunted down by Sirrug
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Ol' Scratch
post May 30 2005, 09:32 AM
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I've always had the impression that Harlequinn did quite a bit of downtime hunting, too. As an example of why I had that impression, I seem to remember in one of the short stories (even if its not canonical) about how he would have been very distraught if the time ever came that he would have to slay Dunkelzahn.

Some of the IEs may have killed indescrimnately during the downtime, but I think that if Harley was involved, he was actually targetting the "bad ones" if and when he managed to find them.

But that's all pure conjecture on my part, as if it really mattered either way. :) The downtime hunting was basically a "damn, I don't really want to have to bring back all those old dragons from Earthdawn, so how can I get out of doing that? Oh, I know, the IEs hunted them! Yay!" plot hook. So, yeah, I doubt if much thought went into it, really. It could easily have been due to disease, some kind of silly dragon war, or any other random idea someone came up with when they put the ink to paper. It's just a convenient plot hook to explain why there aren't too many dragons.

Well, why there weren't too many dragons. They seem to be a dime a dozen these days.
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hermit
post May 30 2005, 10:04 AM
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There have been dragons galore ever since Germany SB decided to put a whooping five Greats into Germany alone, and two more into Switzerland and Austria respectively, if I remember (the never-translated expansions of GSB) C&D and WPSI correctly - and at least Germany SB became canon.

And as for the down-cycle hunting ... I dunno. The first time it showed up (and I noticed) was in Aztlan, Findley's last book. Maybe it was a part of a larger IE plotline that never was realised? It just seemed like something Findley (and the rest of that time's SR writers team) intended to build on, rather than a convenient excuse to drop the too fantasy-ish dragons frm ED.
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Wireknight
post May 30 2005, 10:50 AM
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Don't forget Aithne Oakforest. He's always seemed to have a special, almost psychotic hatred for the dragons. I doubt Lofwyr eating the promising young scion of the Oakforest bloodline in the new world has done anything to mollify that.
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Ancient History
post May 30 2005, 03:21 PM
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I go on a little vacation, stop off to check out my brother's wireless connection on his new laptop and what do I find? Ghost and begorrah.

Oh, by the way, nice to see you here GaiasWrath8. :)

First, a reference so we're all on the same page. In particular, check out page 142. Please not dragon-kin aren't solely elves.

I'm not addressing whether or not dragons can fall in love (or lust), but it is possible some dragonkin exist in SR. Akira Kageyama is a primary candidate for that.

Bred drakes would appear to fulfil the purpose of dragonkin anyway, but for all those science buffs who want to know what you get trying to mix dragon DNA with metahuman, checkout Lofwyr's comments considering Dunkelzahn's vaccine in the novel The Forever Drug.

On the subject of Immortal Elves, it is generally agreed that they are different from your avergae dragon-kin elf, having been altered by powerful spirits or draconic ritual magic (or a rare genetic mutation, etc. Take your pick.) Their mortal descendants might be normal examples of whatever metahuman species they express as, or they might not. We haven't seen one, so there's no telling.

Chances are Alachia was actually sired by Lofwyr, not Alamaise. She was not, by any measure, the first, although she appears to be the oldest one currently existing, dating back to the early Fourth World (it is possible she dates back to the later Second World, the Age of Dragons, but I find this unlikely). Alachia is generally most agreed-upon to have participated in the down-cycle hunting, which would explain the absence of dragons in Tír na nÓg and possibly the corpse in Thuringia.

Doctor FUnkenstein, of course, is referring to the short story WYrm Talk, although I disagree that this implies -H- necessairilly did any down-cycle hunting.

Aithne /might/ have participated, though I doubt he's that stupid.
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GaiasWrath8
post May 30 2005, 04:01 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)

Oh, by the way, nice to see you here GaiasWrath8. :)


Thanks, Its not like I stopped playing, I just did not have any questions. LOL
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FlakJacket
post May 31 2005, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
Their mortal descendants might be normal examples of whatever metahuman species they express as, or they might not. We haven't seen one, so there's no telling.

Huh? Are you talking about IE's or dragonkin here, 'cause don't the books say that Ehran's daughter Frosty is also immortal so that it's inherited.
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hermit
post May 31 2005, 06:25 PM
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Besides Erhan has this gene scanning for immortals campaign going (TT book, if I remember correctly).
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Jrayjoker
post May 31 2005, 06:41 PM
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Another aside:

In Harlequin (the module) Ehran has

[ Spoiler ]


in his lab. Adding credence to the thought that IEs and GDs are in hate. And also causing me to think that Ehran has done some huning in his down cycle days.
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Wireknight
post May 31 2005, 07:45 PM
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My apologies, I mixed up my elven queens. Wasn't the first of the great elves (i.e. the immortal elves) the elven queen that Alamais nuked? I was under the impression she was also a product of Alamais' tampering with lifeforms, and also the one who gave him the terrible wound that scarred him.
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