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> Rigging sans rig, Kinda an oxymoron.
Tinman
post May 29 2005, 01:47 PM
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Hi there. I was wondering if I could get any suggestions on how to get the most mileage (pun intended) out of driving a car if getting cyberware wasn't an option.

I'm thinking that improved handling and a 'trode connection to the car is a good place to start. Do you guys have any other suggestions?
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psykotisk_overle...
post May 29 2005, 02:15 PM
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Veichle empathy edge, Friggin high skill-rating, Skill aptitude:veichle skill (if your Gm allows this). Other than that, get the best modified veichle for the job. But at the end of the day rigged characters have all the advantages, as all the things I listed here could be combined with a VCR.
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hermit
post May 29 2005, 02:22 PM
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And Riggers always have access to Control Pool, something you'll never have without VCR.

Forget 'trode connection. That +1 Reaction and -1 to tests is really not worth the trouble.

A different idea would be making the character in question an adept, specialising on the vehicle's operation. You could, by SOTA2064 adept rules, get at least close to being as good as a rigger in operating the vehicle that way.
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Catsnightmare
post May 29 2005, 09:47 PM
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trodes only get you the -1 TN, have to have a Datajack for the +1 Reaction.
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hermit
post May 29 2005, 09:58 PM
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Right. Mixed those two up.
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nick012000
post May 30 2005, 12:31 AM
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An being adept is a good idea. Improved Ability (Vehicle skill) is just as good as having a Control Pool, for everything but the Vehicle's Body Tests. And it applies to every time you use the skill, so it is effectively an endless 'pool'.
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Tinman
post May 30 2005, 07:51 PM
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys, but I probably should have been more specific. I was thinking more along the lines of vehicle customization as I'm well into a game already and our GM is trying to steer us away from cyberware for story purposes.

I am an adept however, so I'll have to look into getting those extra skill dice. I didn't think that you could magically enhance your driving skill, but I'll be sure to bring that up with my GM. 8)
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mfb
post May 30 2005, 08:03 PM
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as of SOTA:64 IA: (Vehicle) is 0.5pp per level.
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hermit
post May 30 2005, 08:12 PM
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If you're an adept, invest all you can in new SOTA'64 powers that relate to the vehicle. Also, of course, tuning and a balance gyroscope and such things are never wrong either. And if you want to get a little extra bonus, those trodes could give you a small, tiny little extra kick.
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Edward
post May 30 2005, 11:06 PM
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The only pertinent modification to a are those that improve handling.

The biggest thing you will loos over a true rigger is dodge and improved soak as both of these use control pool, that requires a VCR and is what allows a rigged vehicle to survive an engagement with a gun that can penetrate its armour. So more armour may also be worth considering.

If you want to control drones then you can but its tricky, you will need to look threw rigger 3 and perhaps matrix to find the rules for using a drone network in captains chare mode without a VCR, you donít get great initiative and there are other issues but I think you can do it with a trode net.

Edward
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Tinman
post May 31 2005, 01:02 AM
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Oooh, hadn't even thought of using drones. Thanks Edward. :-]

Better start looking for ones with an at least halfway decent pilot rating though.
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Wireknight
post May 31 2005, 01:54 AM
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Most mileage would be gotten out of, as a character, an adept with the highest level of improved reflexes, the highest level of improved ability in their vehicle of choice, aptitude with that particular vehicle, and the attunement metamagic applied to the particular vehicle in question. For their vehicle, I recommend drive-by-wire at the maximum possible rating, smart materials, and improved handling. Combine those things and you could probably pull a really decent stunt-driver, though combat in a vehicle is virtually impossible without a rigger or a robot pilot with combat-based learning pool.
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Eyeless Blond
post May 31 2005, 03:01 AM
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Another problem with non-riggers is the moment you get behind the wheel all your initiative boosts disappear, except those provided by a rigger jumped into the vehicle. So it doesn't matter if you've got improved reflexes 3 as an adept, with some ungodly 11+4d6 init normally; the moment you grab a steering wheel you're down to 5+d6 like everyone else. All those learned reactions no longer matter, because a steering wheel is so much less intuitive than a smartgun or a computer interface or a rocket launcher, ninjitsu. It doesn't matter how skilled you are either; you'll just never be as fluid with that steering wheel as an unckilled monkey weilding a monofilament whip, because driving a car is so much less intuitive. :P
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Wireknight
post May 31 2005, 03:17 AM
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Actually, my understanding is that bonus initiative dice are lost. Bonuses to Reaction are preserved. Hence my suggestion of improved reflexes. It won't make you fast enough to beat a rigger, but the extra Reaction will help behind the wheel and in raising your Reaction-linked vehicle skill.
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Eyeless Blond
post May 31 2005, 11:07 AM
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Hm. Um, not that I can tell:

QUOTE (SR3 pg. 140 Right column)
Bonuses for boosted and wired reflexes, adept increases in abilities, and magic do NOT apply when determining initiative. However, characters with a datajack who are driving a vehicle equipped with a datajack port receive a +1 Reaction bonus.


The presence of that next sentence indicates that "Bonuses" means bonuses to both reaction and initiative.

Hm, just noticed: no mention of reaction enhancers, drugs, or bioware in that sentence, which means by rules-lawyering they are allowed, unless someone has a different/better quote that disproves? Of course most of those weren't introduced until after the core rules came out, so it's seriously up for debate.

Oh, wait, here's a slightly "better" one:
QUOTE (p. 42)
While rigging, riggers receive only the modifications given from the vehicle control rig. Characters with a datajack [...blah blah blah] No other Reaction or Initiative modifiers apply except for injury modifiers.


Thus, vehicles, unlike all other forms of modern technology, somehow manage to slow you down to the level of an uncybered mundane, because driving a car is far more nonintuitive than any other action conceivable.
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Lindt
post May 31 2005, 02:18 PM
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*sigh* which is why if a charcter wants to use his 3d6+14 init he HAS to use the pedels and wheel like everyone else. And a sammi with car 6 and wired 3 will STILL get his sh*t handed to him by a competent rigger.
*edit* or thats my opinion on how it should work anyway...

This post has been edited by Lindt: May 31 2005, 02:17 PM
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hermit
post May 31 2005, 02:35 PM
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Note how it says "while rigging" (or jacked in, as the characters with datajack part implies). Do you get to keep your reaction and initiative boni in the matrix? If not, blame the ASIST interface.
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Eyeless Blond
post May 31 2005, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (hermit @ May 31 2005, 06:35 AM)
Note how it says "while rigging" (or jacked in, as the characters with datajack part implies). Do you get to keep your reaction and initiative boni in the matrix? If not, blame the ASIST interface.

Right, which is why I put page 140 first. In that one it's clear that no matter how you're driving the vehicle only the VCR nets you any benefits. p. 42 just makes the rule a little more clear that it's an exclusive restriction--it's ONLY VCrs and datajacks--rather than inclusive--it's not you get everything BUT wired, magic, and adept powers. It's an important difference when you add in additional supplements such as M&M which introduces drug-based init boosts and the like.

Plus it's datajack-assisted driving. You don't go linp while driving by datajack like you do while rigging; otherwise if you were 'jacking a motorcycle you'd need gyroscopic stabalization like a rigger does, and you don't. The 'jack is just so you get the virtual dashboard; it doesn't overwrite your motor functions. Thus you're probably still using the wheel and pedals (and leaning to turn in the case of motorcycles) while 'jack-driving, even though the books don't technically specify one way or the other.
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hermit
post May 31 2005, 05:07 PM
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Adept increases in abilities?? So if I have my car skill enhanced with adept powers I don't get to use it while actually *driving* the car?

Talk about broken. :P
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Jrayjoker
post May 31 2005, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (hermit)
Adept increases in abilities?? So if I have my car skill enhanced with adept powers I don't get to use it while actually *driving* the car?

Talk about broken. :P

Huh?
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Nythrun
post May 31 2005, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE (hermit)
Adept increases in abilities?? So if I have my car skill enhanced with adept powers I don't get to use it while actually *driving* the car?

Talk about broken. :P

Only if your enhanced car skill gives you an initiative boost.

Not quite as broken as that :)
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hermit
post May 31 2005, 08:23 PM
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Ah, okay. Not that I would ever give a damn about this rule, since it would so blatantly not make sense ...
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UpSyndrome
post Jun 1 2005, 07:49 PM
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One way in which driving adepts are better than riggers is that they can use Centering for their driving skill (as long as they devote a metamagic technique to it after already having centering). This allows them to gain extra successes, and (if I'm not wrong about adepts being able to do this also, I got no books with me), reduce target number modifiers like driving through tight terrain.

-Joe
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Wireknight
post Jun 1 2005, 08:10 PM
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Yes, but they still can't engage in the same basic combat maneuvers as a rigger. If you want a combat driver, you need to go with a rigger. If you want a stunt driver (who will be toast the moment it devolves into vehicle combat) you can get by with an adept.
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Edward
post Jun 1 2005, 10:04 PM
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The ideological problem I have with the non rigger driver is that it makes a lot of things very clunky.

For example how do go gangers do anything nasty from there bikes, they cant very well afford a VCR so where are they coming up with the actions to fire on the move.

And drive buy shootings tend to get a bit tricky. When your initiative is limited to threat of the driver if you donít have a rigger for a driver. A samy can fire faster on the pavement than in a slow moving care, why)

Edward
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