 Why not a second genre? |
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 Jun 1 2005, 12:29 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Albany, NY Member No.: 1,757  |
I agree cyberpunk has always been done a couple decades past the present time but why not have a second setting for Shadowrun thrown into the new 4th edition book? Cyberpunk in Space. God knows how many of you have wanted to do runs aboard Starships or visiting other Colonies and hack into vast Galactic networks. I don't see why their not exploring expanding the Shadowrun Universe.
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Jun 1 2005, 12:58 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
Would suck for magicians, and other awakened folks.
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Jun 1 2005, 01:05 PM
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#3
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
And because I think torching the previous system (that lasted, more or less, three editions, albeit with revisions) and starting up a whole new basic mechanic for every die roll in the game is an ambitious and risky enough endeavor for right now.
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Jun 1 2005, 01:13 PM
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#4
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Three things.
1) You can already take part in "space" adventures, just not interplantary ones. They even have a runner haunt orbitting the planet. 2) If they did so, it would need to be a completely different game independant and seperate from Shadowrun, else they'd fall into the same trap they did with Earthdawn. What trap? The one where they were stuck having to insure everything in Earthdawn fit in with everything in Shadowrun, thus limiting their creative options with both lines. 3) The game engine has always been Shadowrun's weakest aspect. It's the theme, setting, metaplot, and characters that makes it great, not the stuff under the hood (which, by the way, is another reason why I don't get why people are flying off the handle in their ignorance about the new rules). So, basically, what would be the point? There's nothing to gain by this. Now I would love to see more games have the same setting-focal emphasis that Shadowrun has, including a space-based one that blends in fantasy elements, but that has all but zero to do with the game engine itself. |
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Jun 1 2005, 02:34 PM
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#5
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Well, mostly because we don't agree. While I personally think that the metaplot is great, there's enough ridiculousness in the setting (this one I don't have a specific complaint on, but others have complained about the London sourcebook), metaplot (oh, hey, everyone who saved the world in HB, don't worry 'cause Dunkelzahn is here to piss on your accomplishment and make it just another case of "the Great Dragons have it under control"), and characters (Art Dankwalther is enough of a financial genius to turn billions into hundreds of billions within a year, but not enough of one to not get fired) to easily equal that in the rules, IMO. I can't speak for others, but while the setting attracted me to read the books, it was by far the rules that attracted me to play. ~J |
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Jun 1 2005, 03:11 PM
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#6
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Second. The setting isn't the only good thing about the game -- the game is kinda cool, too.
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Jun 1 2005, 03:28 PM
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#7
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
The mechanics for a space mased game would not be entirely compatable.
Magic would only be usable on plaints with a solid life cycle. Cybrwear as well as other technical things would be greatly advanced, a complete new list of available equipment would be required and essence costs would be greatly lowered. A setting related to SR set in space would probably have to be as independent as earth dawn. Edward |
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Jun 1 2005, 03:45 PM
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#8
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Two words: Germany Sourcebook. Though admittedly, they're beginning to clean that mess up.
Maybe he was fired for being a jerk and not team capable rather than for being a dumbass. ;) Or he was laid off with thousands of others before he ever could show his potential, to increase the profit margin by 1/1000%.
Speaking for myself, too: The books attracted me to the setting, and the setting, especially post-Sargent/Gascoigne books, kept me with the game, despite a thorough dislike of the bloated and bureaucratic rules. Though parts of the rules' concepts - like the "HP" system of damage, the MP-less magic rules, absence of high-Karma PCs getting Super status as in ADD - are well thought out, original and very much better than anything else I have seen, the execution is disasterous. Till this day, I couldn't play a Rigger by the (3rd edition) book, and mind you, I have played one since early 2nd edition, and am playing the character DESPITE the rules, and almost completely on hosue rules.
Ah, that reminds me of my never even remotely written up Shadowrun 4000 AD world setting. It would indeed have to be independent, but it would also be a nice addition to ED and SR proper. Maybe an internet project. Somceday, when I have more time at my hands. |
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Jun 1 2005, 03:45 PM
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#9
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
the mechanics of SR3 have deep-seated flaws, which i'm not sure could be fixed by anything that could fairly be called a "revision". the parts that aren't flawed, though--the things that the rules are trying to accomplish--are awesome. they're why i play SR3, as much as the setting.
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Jun 1 2005, 04:06 PM
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#10
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
SR space is easy to accomplish with a little houseruling and no magic.
Zero grav combat based in underwater combat, ship maneuverability based on hovercraft and large ship mechanics, Naval damage codes for ships, faking stasis and hyperdrive technology. Done. |
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Jun 1 2005, 08:14 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Here, here!! Stories and pregenerated plots are a-dime-a-dozen, but it was SR's unique blend of fantasy and blend of rules that drew me in. I suppose that's why I've been so skeptical about SR4, the rules are changing, which is tinkering with something at least in my mind, really defines SR. |
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Jun 1 2005, 08:42 PM
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#12
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Amazing how people are always complaining about the rules and saying they're the weakest part of the game months ago, but now it's the single most important aspect of Shadowrun. Neat how that works.
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Jun 1 2005, 08:55 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Note Calonna Member No.: 241 |
Who says they're the same people? You had people who loved the rules back then, and people who hated them. Nothing's changed other than there's a new game coming down the pike that's sparking this discussion. It will likely have rules that some people will love, and some peope will hate. |
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Jun 1 2005, 09:01 PM
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#14
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Yeah, I don't think anyone has really changed views. But those of us who like the mechanics didn't have any reason to complain before. We do have a reason to complain now. Those who don't like the rules complained before, but now are quiet.
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Jun 1 2005, 09:36 PM
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#15
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Guests |
I would say the opposite, or at least not completely write off the mechanics' influence on the game. But that's just me. People who game with me will probably tell you that I spend more of my time bitching about the storyline and fiction writing than anything else. Bashing the way rules are written is an afterthought comparatively. |
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Jun 1 2005, 11:55 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
I think that's kinda like a Superfund site. They can never really clean it up, just remove enough of the toxic waste that you don't keel over immediately. |
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Jun 2 2005, 05:21 AM
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#17
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Really? Go find some quotes that we're the same "people" you're referring to/remembering. |
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Jun 2 2005, 07:21 AM
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#18
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Why bother? The people I'm talking about know who they are, and that's all that really matters. Besides, anyone can go look through any number of posts from the past in which massive changes to the current system are being discussed, where people are whining and complaining about how much they hate major aspects of the current system. Hell, you can look through some of the threads in this subforum and find posts like that (such as, oh I dunno, people asking to buy "SR3R" or whatnot). Then you have the posts about major changes to how initiative are handled, how magic is handled, how fucked up the dice mechanic is (with its randomness curve looking like something a two-year-old with a crayon and six cups of cappucinno in them drew while blindfolded), how much the combat system needs to be redone, and etc. In the end, it just looks like the majority of people who are complaining are complaining because the changes aren't being done the way they wanted to change them. The game needed a major overhaul from the ground up. They've actually sat down and have done it, and I applaud them for that even if I don't like everything I'm seeing (I really loathe the core dice mechanic myself). If the new system turns out to be crap, so be it. But at least they're trying to improve it, and I have no doubt that they're trying their best, and I'm going to wait to see the final product before passing my judgement on it instead of flying off the handle at every little thing I can find, and I'm certainly not going to condemn them for doing what they're doing. But that aside, I still stand by my original comment above. |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Jun 2 2005, 07:30 AM
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#19
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Guests |
Oh, really? |
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Jun 2 2005, 07:31 AM
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#20
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Yep.
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Jun 2 2005, 07:34 AM
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#21
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Guests |
I need to use that argument more often then.
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Jun 2 2005, 07:33 AM
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#22
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Knock yourself out.
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Jun 2 2005, 07:56 AM
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#23
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
I never knew doing your best was all it took to get praise as a game developer. I'll try that on my boss next time I screw something up, here at work.
Real life isn't Cub Scouts. Doing your best isn't the sort of thing professionals should get praised and congratulated for -- doing it right is. |
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Jun 2 2005, 08:06 AM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Like I said...
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Jun 2 2005, 08:18 AM
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#25
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Well, right. But it's not like that's exactly some sort of revelation or deep, sudden, insight into human nature.
If the changes were done how we wanted, would we, y'know, be complaining? |
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