FRT response times, a good question Options

[fistandantilus4....]

Was scanning another thread, and a question of response times came up. What would be an accurate response time for the average in house team? Off site as well, like say a KE response to a client's alarm?

[Lady Door]

5 hours. :) It worries me when my DM asks questions like this...

[Critias]

Like everything else in the world, it depends on two things -- the situation, and the GM's whim.

Why's FRT or SWAT or whoever getting called in? What exactly is going on, what part of the city, what rich/famous/legal/important people are involved? What sort of guns are the baddies (ie, players) brandishing, what sort of body count is there by this point, how many fires and explosions? How many criminals, how many hostages? How much publicity, how many reporters are already on scene? Who's calling FRT/SWAT (another cop directly, a second-person dispatch style call based on a civilian's report of what's going on, what?)? What day of the week is it (yes, really)? What else is going on in the city/district/area at the time (IE, did the players set up diversion-style problems for them to deal with a few blocks away, is it in the middle of the Brainscan Blackout, are their riots in the streets over the Comet, what)?

Situation matters quite a bit...but, also, well...GM's fiat comes into play. Would it help or hurt the story for a nigh-unstoppable, flawless, small unit of professional killers two come in through every available entrance/exit and handily dismantle the team with controlled automatic fire aided by chemical weapons, flash-bangs, and a sniper fomr a block away? Is it a good thing for the party to get killed outright (which is what these guys should do, hands down)? Or is it a good thing for them to know they're coming, and get away by the skin of their teeth just before they arrive?

[fistandantilus4....]

[Critias]

The first time a party does something stupid enough for a SWAT/FRT killer team to get called in, I'd use it as a warning. Let them find out on the news after the fact that they made it away like they did only because Channel 9 does a special on how poor, understaffed, Lone Star didn't have enough guys to cover the shift last night when "multiple calls were made about fully automatic fire and murderous rampages" or something -- make it clear to them they made it out of there just ahead of the SWAT van 'cause Lone Star's big boys were busy across town wiping out a nasty gang or similar.

Make sure it's understood they got lucky, make sure it's understood what they did wrong to get that attention in the first place, and make sure they know what'll happen if they call down the thunder a second time.

[fistandantilus4....]

This has happened... twice I think... at least in the same local. Once on the other side of the continent. They managed to get away just before they big guns showed up. I had a set time from first shot fired for back up to arrive. I think it was like 10 minutes for a yellow jacket, followed by the first citymaster. Accurate?

Luckily the second time it happened was an inside job for someone with pull, and the first was in the middle of no where (Northen California), nad it was supposed to be a demolitions job, so it was expected.

What would you call a reasonable time frame? I also wonder at just how well they would be able to track down a team of runners if the team cleansed the astral, destroyed the video, and pretty much took out the building (yes, this happened. A little C XII can go a long ways when you're trying to get out).

[weblife]

Why do you fear the SWAT team?

Its not like runners don't wear security armor and use heavy support fire. 8)

And the average runner team has more magical firepower than a small nation. Full spirit teams, watcher packs, ally spirit etc. :spin:

When we get busted, we usually Conceal/Movement away while the pack keeps the enemy occupied. - Fave tactic in freeland scenarios is to go underground, one Shape Earth for the tunnel/sled ride, one to Cleanse behind the team. That'll lose the astral trackers.

Getaway vehicles parked at strategic locations with a Ward installed, 2-3 rentals parked in a 1-5 km area from the hit.

A typical scenario is: Guy jumps up and starts sparying ammo at team. Team ducks, except the Cyclops who soak the 14D and then chops the guy to sushi.

Spirits take out the other mundanes in melee.

Everyone turns off foci and spell and hides from a possible astral overwatch, let them snipe the spirits until we can set a pack on one mage at a time.

Yes, they will try to do the same. And yes, you can be outgunned. But its hella hard to get a tooled up runnerteam to stay in place. :cyber:

EDIT: Its when the SWAT runs away, and the unmarked uniforms show up, that you are in trouble. :eek:

[Critias]

I was going to write a long, eloquent, scathingly sarcastic reply about why Shadowrunners should be scared of FRT/SWAT/Ghost teams. But then I realized, halfway through it, the eloquent went away and the screaming and cursing showed up.

So nevermind.

Go on thinking you've got nothing to fear, if you want to think that and if your GM lets you get away with thinking it. Have fun in your game.

[fistandantilus4....]

[toturi]

Unless a runner team is configured for heavy hitting (usually the team is made of mercs in that case), then the best way is for the team to run away.

I had (hiatus, not that the team died out or anything) a team that was capable of Blackhawk Down/Terminus Experiment runs. The catch was the actual runs (datasteal, theft, etc) that they carried out were easier and the BHD/TE runs were training sims where their actual run scenarios were put through "worse case" scenarios. Once they can take on the heaviest possible response team, they'd go in and do the job. Some of the worse case responses: 2 squads of Renraku Reds while the team is in Renraku's zero zone, 15 Jaguar Guards and 2 Blood Mages in an area with Blood aspected Background of 5.

[Edward]

I have neve had a swat teem called on me during a run, and I would like to believe I never deserved it, we where ambushed buy an aztechnology teem, and we obliterated 3 vans each containing a cyberzomby and its backup (got to love AV missiles).

We usually work on stealth when security assets we don’t like show up we leave and try to get to locations where the rigger can cover us (when we have one).

Security armour is not easy to get and even when you can its not very subtle (actually got milspec for current run, even if it is only light, of course we have to give it back when we get out of the arcology). Further not every teem has a Cyclops sushi chef (didn’t they have trouble getting into even troll sized buildings) and I would expect any SWAT and similar units to have access to APDS ammunition.

Edward

[Jrayjoker]

I'd say first response should never be more than 10 minutes. It doesn't have to be heavy response, but the odds of it being heavy increase based on affluence of the area and megacorp involvement.

[Shadow]

An FRT is nothing more than a few guys on alert 5. They are probably armed as well as SWAT and are required to be on scene. I would say within a few minutes.

I think you want the HTRT. High-Threat-Response-Team.

These guys are the full squad of combat monkeys with at least on mage and a whole lot of heavy ordinance. They show on scene in the Osprey III with the FN-Mag 5 as the door gun.

[Critias]

[SpasticTeapot]

Of course, depending on how one looks at it, a FRT could also make a very effective HTRT. Remember, the same MBW-3 setup that allows someone to so nimbly slide down a rope and land in formation is also quite useful when beating the snot out of shadowrunners. A team of mages or shamans is even scarier; a high-level levitate spell or the movement ability of a powerful spirit could whisk them across Seattle in the blink of an eye...and once they're there, they can simply use a detect life spell while manabolting everything that moves.

[Krazy]

again it depends on what you need. I needed to capture my pcs so I had four soldiers with freeze foam, one drone firing flashbangs and cs. it was over quick. the team was alteady pretty hurt. and there is no real default for a swat team. it could be anything from reg cops with shotguns and plated vests to rainbow/ delta. If I need to kill a pc, I can make a normal guy able to, with out mbw or anything that makes them useless as real people. (remember the oposition doesn't have to be faceless thugs. I like real people npcs) and really most pc's arn't that hard to kill, just need the right amount of cash

[Reign Maker]

All depends on how nice a gm you are. I give my runners 2 minutes on sight for FRT and 4 minutes till HTR response. Note the response teams spirits (yes more than 1) show up much faster say about 6 seconds after the team is called, when the shadow runners mage dies the team normally starts to run(the new mage has been smart enough to summon watchers and use them 1 at a time for fodder and they been all able to run the last 2 times they stayed to long). If the response team is off sight I give them a good 10 minutes. But same thing if they don't deal with the spirits (about 30 seconds in)Ill just have the team crash where ever the runners ae hiding. And no Heavy military armor means next to nothing.. called head shot helmet armor only in my games.

I think the lone star book had a little bit longer numbers for response times but I use that for starting pc's ad the majority of my players have 200+ karma. So I make it quick and hard. I also love to pump on the response vehicles ECM to jam head wear radios and nullify those pesky smartlinks. When I feel real mean I just have the response team kill the fixer and any other contacts they call after the run then let them live hung out to dry for a few months. Fun to make them have to re build contacts, and keeps them from duing stupid things.

[Arethusa]

Good to have you back, Weredigo.

[Reign Maker]

[Mr. Man]

The back of New Seattle has some rules for Lone Star response time that you could use. They're tough, but specified as optional rules.

Personally I like them (and I say this as a player). A less action oriented, more planning oriented game is to my taste. When a target is in an A+ zone it should be extremely difficult to move against without security catching on real fast. And once that happens it should be extremely difficult to escape as astral mages/spirits and riggers using drones/GridGuide are the first responders. These FR's have no reason to make themselves obvious until backup is in position, either...

[fistandantilus4....]

See, that's what I keep forgetting to use

Those Star drones that Rigger 3 suggests are pretty much omnipresent, like the strato-9's.

Them and some elementals dropping in and a Star mage in the astral should be trouble enough, not to mention slowing them down enough for the other response teams to drop in.

[Reign Maker]

Yup the drones and the astral presence should tell them to run if they stay they deserve the quick death coming.

[Mortax]

Ditto for me on that one, Reign Maker. I've had a couple of players who don't understand some of the things you can and can't do. Like:

!. Blow up a car with a firebolt spell in downtown without wearing a mask
2. Talk about the crime you commited while you are in jail and talking to your girlfriend
3. And the wors idea: stay in the musium AFTER you know cops are on there way to take some books that have no value, then shoot at the cops while you stand there by your self. (That guy died Very quickly.)

I make onsight security respond in something like 4d6 or 5d6 turns, if the security is decent.

Lonestar I go slightly more realistic than the 30second respose time, but you can expect drones and astral to show up first if HTR is required, and it's a good bet for FRT too, at least for the drones.

Ya know what I love about drones? Lonestar can pay one rigger to patrol a very large area, and if something bad happens, all they lose is a drone and give the rigger some tylonol or nerps.

[SpasticTeapot]

For the sake of realism, I rule that on-site teams get there in 3d6x15 seconds, with offsite teams taking 2d6+10 minutes for FRT, and 1d6+22 minutes for HTR. This is, of course, including modifiers for Seattle traffic.

[BitBasher]