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warrior_allanon
post Jun 4 2005, 09:59 PM
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alrigt folks, i'm gonna go ahead and ask the dumb question here, WHATS A NON-CYBERED MUNDANE as a PC and how does it survive in a SR game. i would really like to know cause otherwise i am about ready to burn away from SR4 except for possible decker/rigger rule changes


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Ol' Scratch
post Jun 4 2005, 10:05 PM
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What's a non-cybered mundane? It's a, uh, non-cybered mundane.

As for SR4, it alledgedly allows non-cybered mundanes to have higher than normal Edge attributes which, apparently, is designed to help give them an "edge" over cybered and awakened opposition. How, no clue, but that's supposed to be the intent.

As for what kind of character excels as a non-cybered mundane? Face- and Detective-types work really well mostly because they rely primarily on their intellect and charisma as well as their massive lists of Contacts, in essence making them the masters of legwork. In a fight, they can hold their own against typical opposition, but won't fare very well against opposition designed to combat strong magical or highly combat-cybered opponents (which is all a "duh" really).

I don't know why this is suddenly a major concern with SR4 for you, however... but whatever. People are cooking up all kinds of weird reasons to say they hate SR4, so this isn't really a big surprise either.
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hermit
post Jun 4 2005, 10:06 PM
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1. A face. A character whose job isn't to shoot as fast as possible or sling mojo or do wiz tech things, but to talk to Mr. J., have a list of contacts as long as Lofwyr's, and be apt in negotiation, interrogation, and all the social skills the tech, mojo and combat monsters just never bother to pick up because they're saving up for the next initiation/the increase of pistols to 12/burn their Karma for more money to waste on programs/drones. Being extraordinarily charismatic is a must, too.

2. A chemist/tech specialist. You know, the kind of character who can mix and match a weapon out of tin foil, a battery, a couple of branches and two half-empty bottles of water. McGuyver would be a great example.

3. A investogator. A well-connected character with tons of surveillance equipment. Your famous film noir private eye. Can become a face character if you want to.

4. A Journalist. As discussed elsewhere, the media can bring down a corporation much, much better than any number of combat monsters rampaging and killing people left and right can. Think Lois Lane.

Just some examples off the top of my head.
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JongWK
post Jun 4 2005, 10:10 PM
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@ Doc Funkenstein:

Don't forget Clean Steve from SR2's Eye Witness.
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Wireknight
post Jun 4 2005, 11:31 PM
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Clean Steve was awesome, insofar as that he was supposed to be a character whose sheer grit and determination had made him a premier combatant and assassin wtihout the aid of cyberware... except that he had, I believe, one skill above 6, and it was a melee combat skill. A starting samurai (or possibly even a starting non-cybered mundane who just rolled lucky) could have defeated him. I ended up granting/increasing skills and attributes, and granting edges, until he had 10 in unarmed and firearms, and could soak pretty effectively.

He still ended up going down, sadly, but he was at least a challenge at that point. Making the major foil of a module a pushover doesn't make the characters work hard enough for their rewards.
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apollo124
post Jun 5 2005, 06:31 AM
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One more possiblilty would be a Jack-of-All-Trades, whose huge skill list, and as mentioned above, maybe huge contact list and huge equipment list would make him invaluable during the legwork and meet areas of a run. "Oh, no! That maglock 8 just can't be gotten through! Don't worry, I have a microtronics kit and the skill to use it!"

Don't forget about the possible negative social effects of massive cyber, and the frankly unnerving sight, to most folks, of someone who can actually perform magic. In such a situation, Mundane Man would be the king of negotiating a deal. Also, if Mundane Man is a human, probably very little racism to deal with, depending on campaign and situation.
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Taki
post Jun 5 2005, 04:13 PM
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The skilled assassin, able to walk through any detecting gate or scanner detection without being caught.
Same as Face / infiltrator, actually ...
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warrior_allanon
post Jun 5 2005, 04:53 PM
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alright i concede that there is a place for a NCM in games, now i will say this as well, it is a job easily taken over by other characters with a little teamwork, i will explain how.

1: dont take obvious cyber, if you have the contacts to get beta grade cyberware you can blasted well get it with synthskin on it.
2:if you use magic dont do it overtly in front of your contacts, or if your known as a mage convince your contacts that your honorable and wouldnt use magic on them, that or deal with them almost completely over the phone/trid
3: adepts make great JOAT's, thats what my first created character was and the dice really loved him till he went off the end of the docks in an MPUV, but the problem with JOAT's is that yes they do know a bit of everything, but they dont do any one thing good enough to really survive
just my thoughts on the matter because quite frankly what NCM means to me is joe schmoe off the street can just up and get involved in a situation and be on par with experienced shadowrunners

my :nuyen: .02
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SR4-WTF?
post Jun 5 2005, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE (warrior_allanon @ Jun 5 2005, 11:53 AM)
just my thoughts on the matter because quite frankly what NCM means to me is joe schmoe off the street can just up and get involved in a situation and be on par with experienced shadowrunners

But Joe Schmoe can't because he just doesn't have that....Edge. Clean Steve on the other hand is no Joe Schmoe, he has got Edge. So Joe has to go under the knife to get beefed up enough to take on Clean Steve. After all any Joe Schmoe can have cyberware implanted.
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Taki
post Jun 5 2005, 05:56 PM
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you are right warrior al, adept or light cyber char could easily fit in most situations, as magic and cyber are enhancements !
But since you need to access a secure place, with no good reason to have power / cyberware other than headware -data connection or soft things like that, any basic aura reader will at least qualify you as a dangerous person ...
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Panzergeist
post Jun 5 2005, 06:09 PM
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Actually, I'm playing MacGyver in a campaign right now, and he does need a little cyber. Microscopic vision and an encephalon are vital for a tech wiz, and enhanced articulation and a mnemonic enhancer help too.
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