Masking Wards - Dumpshock Forums

Masking Wards, Ring of Masking?

mfb View Member Profile	Jun 12 2005, 02:37 PM Post #26
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	i don't know of any spells which fool astral perception, with the possible exception of mana static. even that doesn't so much conceal as simply blind. based on that, i wouldn't allow a spell that did, especially a spell that fools astral perception in the same way that masking does.

Apathy View Member Profile	Jun 12 2005, 02:47 PM Post #27
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046	I've always run mine the way AH describes. So, you can put a masking ward on the pope-mobile, and astrally-percieving catholics won't notice that he's actually possessed by a high-force bug spirit (or horror, etc.). Similarly, high-threat security forces (Red Samuri, Seraphim, etc.) that wear full-body security armor can put wards on their suits to help their spell defense. But if that same security dude takes off his helmet, then the protection of the ward is negated.

hobgoblin

Jun 12 2005, 05:35 PM

Post #28

panda!

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QUOTE (mfb)

the only wards that are not bounded by physical surfaces are those created by hermetic circles and shamanic lodges. all other wards conform to the surfaces they are created on, up to and including doors. if you ward a room, and someone opens the door of that room, there is a hole in the ward that an astral being can pass through.

so to do a nice simple astral scouting of a fully warded building in your games the person should astraly follow a guard around while he's doing the round?

fistandantilus4....

Jun 12 2005, 05:51 PM

Post #29

Uncle Fisty

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QUOTE (Apathy)

Similarly, high-threat security forces (Red Samuri, Seraphim, etc.) that wear full-body security armor can put wards on their suits to help their spell defense.

If you really want to do this, also keep in mid the cost of the warding. Either someone has to bind it with karma, or pay some seriosu up keep on it. For some John running around in heavy military armor that costs a base of 70,000, yeah I can see that. Kind of like assuming that a corp would ward a million nuyen tank (see other very long thread tangent.... somewhere). If you're htikning a squad, think aobut the amount of nuyen that would go in to that. Not something that's likely to happen often except in special circumstances.

Gets difficult if runnners decide to use it though. Of couse, fist they have to make an avail. 18 check for light military armor.

Eyeless Blond

Jun 12 2005, 06:10 PM

Post #30

Decker on the Threshold

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QUOTE (mfb)

the only wards that are not bounded by physical surfaces are those created by hermetic circles and shamanic lodges. all other wards conform to the surfaces they are created on, up to and including doors. if you ward a room, and someone opens the door of that room, there is a hole in the ward that an astral being can pass through.

Where exactly does it say this? The closest thing I can find in the core book is:

QUOTE (SR3 p. 174 @ "Astral Barriers")

The astral form of a barrier does not necessarily conform to its physical contours.

but that seems to directly contradict what you're saying. In fact, they go on on p. 83 of MitS (though I won't quote it because I'm lazy) to note that even if a physical component to any astral barrier do not make a completely enclosed space, the astral component of the barrier will.

Ancient History View Member Profile	Jun 12 2005, 06:41 PM Post #31
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935	I believe the ideal solution would be an anchoring focus carrying a personal version of the astral barrier spell. This way, you are protected with the equivalent of a ward, and if you possess masking you can hide the focus. The difficulty, of course, lies in successfully arguing that the spell, when triggered, is likewise masked. I won't even go into the difficulties of group ritual spellcasting into an anchoring focus.

mfb View Member Profile	Jun 12 2005, 07:36 PM Post #32
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	huh. damn gnomes must have inserted that into SR3 when i wasn't looking. that, or my nonsense filter kept me from being able to see it until it was specifically pointed out ("wards have to conform to physical boundaries, except they really don't!")

Ol' Scratch View Member Profile	Jun 12 2005, 07:43 PM Post #33
Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890	Note that wards are a specific type of astral barrier. The rule Eyeless Blond quoted was in reference to astral barriers in general, not wards, and even cites two examples of non-ward barriers that don't have to conform to its physical contours (hermetic circles and shamanic lodges).

Eyeless Blond View Member Profile	Jun 12 2005, 08:09 PM Post #34
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156	Doc makes a very good point. The specific rules for wards are a bit ambiguous in this regard: it's possible that wards specifically do need to exactly correspond to their physical components. The biggest objection I have to this, however, is that this ruling for wards--that they do not "stretch" over gaps in the physical components--means that they are much much less useful for keeping mages from sustainning a dozen spells on themselves all the time. If you can just walk past a ward by opening a door, a window, or a hole in the wall, then wards really don't provide much more protection than a normal wall itself provides. (Edit): Either way though, no matter how much you stretch the rules on ward stretching, you're never going to have a ring or a t-shirt creating a ward large enough to protect a whole person. The warded suit of armor might work though, as would anything with total (or so near total that there is no real difference) body coverage, like a chemsuit. I'd go as far as to say that most full-body chemsuits would be warded (Force 2-4 I'd say), as such suits will typically stray into Toxic areas and those are much more dangerous in the Sixth World with spirits and crap around.

mfb View Member Profile	Jun 12 2005, 09:09 PM Post #35
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	hm. a sensible way to manage this would be to say that wards can stretch to cover gaps equal to (force) centimeters^2.

Apathy View Member Profile	Jun 13 2005, 02:24 PM Post #36
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046	I don't think that the intent of the ward rules was to say that warding a room was negated when you opened a window, but I do think the general outline of the ward is set by the physical component of the ward. So, I'd let a mage ward a room, with the perimeter being defined by the walls. The ward would stretch across the windows and doorway, and not be broken if they were opened. The ward might be damaged in that area, however, if the door (or window, or wall, etc.) was destroyed. I'd let a mage draw a chalk circle on the floor, or a circle of rocks/bones/whatever outside, and create a spherical ward with its diameter defined by the circle. Or maybe even just put down 4 rocks to define the corners of the ward. But I wouldn't let the mage ward a pebble, and have the perimeter of the ward extend any distance out from the pebble. So carrying a warded pebble in your pocket (or a warded ring on your finger) wouldn't protect the person.

Eyeless Blond

Jun 13 2005, 03:29 PM

Post #37

Decker on the Threshold

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QUOTE (Apathy)

I don't think that the intent of the ward rules was to say that warding a room was negated when you opened a window, but I do think the general outline of the ward is set by the physical component of the ward.

So, I'd let a mage ward a room, with the perimeter being defined by the walls. The ward would stretch across the windows and doorway, and not be broken if they were opened. The ward might be damaged in that area, however, if the door (or window, or wall, etc.) was destroyed.

I'd let a mage draw a chalk circle on the floor, or a circle of rocks/bones/whatever outside, and create a spherical ward with its diameter defined by the circle. Or maybe even just put down 4 rocks to define the corners of the ward.

But I wouldn't let the mage ward a pebble, and have the perimeter of the ward extend any distance out from the pebble. So carrying a warded pebble in your pocket (or a warded ring on your finger) wouldn't protect the person.

Agree 100%, and I applaud your description. :)

weblife View Member Profile	Jun 13 2005, 06:51 PM Post #38
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318	Apathy has it down right.

Nikoli View Member Profile	Jun 13 2005, 07:02 PM Post #39
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033	I agree as well and oddly enough, was always my take on Wards.

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