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> The Ever Elusive Zurich Orbital, Can it be infiltrated?
Lady Door
post Jun 14 2005, 07:24 PM
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If you had the equipment, were crazy enough, and were getting paid enough (honestly though, how much would be enough?) how would you do it?
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Bigity
post Jun 14 2005, 07:25 PM
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I think the "easiest" way to do it would be from space. And you'd still fail.
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Angelone
post Jun 14 2005, 07:31 PM
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I'd go by way of matrix, most likely a simulator, and still end up botching the run. Now if by infiltrate you mean "shoot out of the sky because I accidently crashed into it" I'd say 500k plus expenses.
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Jrayjoker
post Jun 14 2005, 07:32 PM
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Hijack a shuttle and bail out just before ramming it.

Better make that two shuttles. One for the getaway car.

There is no way any runner could live on earth after even attempting this. All the corps would be actively hunting anyone involved in that run.

Just look at what happened after 9/11; wars in two countries. (No, I don't say this with any intention of discussing it in any way shape or form. I'm just pointing out the probable response from the powers that be.)
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Supercilious
post Jun 14 2005, 07:38 PM
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Shuttle to ram it? Killsats destroy you.

Unauthorized access? No, not likely. Corporate download went over security, it is impossible to infiltrate or destroy short of firing a swarm of missles.
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Jrayjoker
post Jun 14 2005, 07:42 PM
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The eight most powerful and untrusting Megacorps in the world have their interests strongly represented on the station. It isn't going down. Ever.
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Lady Door
post Jun 14 2005, 07:50 PM
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I'm not talking bringing it down...I was thinking more along the lines of managing to get into ZO??
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Bigity
post Jun 14 2005, 07:53 PM
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Same response.
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Cynic project
post Jun 14 2005, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (Jrayjoker)
The eight most powerful and untrusting Megacorps in the world have their interests strongly represented on the station. It isn't going down. Ever.

TEN. Not eight, not nine. TEN.

And then you have all the AA"s, and and the like. Taking that thing out would be like blowing up the UN building today. ALL THE powers that be would be gunning for you.
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Kagetenshi
post Jun 14 2005, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (Plan B @ Jun 14 2005, 02:24 PM)
If you had the equipment, were crazy enough, and were getting paid enough (honestly though, how much would be enough?)

Along the lines of forty or fifty meganuyen, probably. Maybe more.
QUOTE
how would you do it?

Plant some moles in the staff, wait a few years, hack in a transfer order from a ship in space (probably launched from one of the pirate satellites), that sort of thing.

~J
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hermit
post Jun 14 2005, 08:31 PM
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Pretty much impossible. More people than registered on a space station means more oxygen used up and more carbon dioxide being produced. They could even detect you from your pheromones (which are unregistered) if they have a really sharp system! And I'd expect them to have.

The only way I could think about would be to develop a special shapechange spell to shapechange into some person who's supposed to be up there, and impersonate them (having disabled these people before). You'd still have to fool the security mages on the spaceport. I don't want to think about what they use to check passengers. You'd likely have to have, on top of the shapechange spell, inside help in Spaceport security. Yes, I know every suborbital can theoretically reach orbit, but if your flight isn't registered, you'll be blasted out of space faster than you can say "unauthorized access".

Of course, you would need a lot of time and ressources only preparing this - not many people go up and down there, I imagine, and those who do are tightly watched.

And then, to top it all off ... what would you want to *do* up there? There's no pile of gold there, that's all down in some old swiss nuclear shelter, guarded with everything magic and technology can muster. And gold is, let me tell you, ridiculously heavy. The only reason I can think of to go up there is to kill some of the permanent residents (Wilma Graff-Beloit, for instance, if your campaign is playing still in the 50s). There's no research up, there're no orbital labs, only computers, and those are easier hacked than infiltrated. Unles there's a closed system. Like Wilma's diary and anti-Loffy plotting notes. Then direct access would be nescessary.

That's a very, VERY high-profile run though. VERY. Requires a lot of sophistication, gear, money and top-notch contacts.
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Jrayjoker
post Jun 14 2005, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE (Cynic project)
QUOTE (Jrayjoker @ Jun 14 2005, 02:42 PM)
The eight most powerful and untrusting Megacorps in the world have their interests strongly represented on the station. It isn't going down. Ever.

TEN. Not eight, not nine. TEN.

And then you have all the AA"s, and and the like. Taking that thing out would be like blowing up the UN building today. ALL THE powers that be would be gunning for you.

Yeah, what he said, Eight!

;)
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Bigity
post Jun 14 2005, 08:43 PM
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What could they check astrally in space though? On the surface yea, but it's dangerous once out of the atmosphere. You'd have to catch them in-flight, but not so that anyone on the sat or the ground was alerted to make that switch.
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FrostyNSO
post Jun 14 2005, 08:46 PM
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Huh?
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Req
post Jun 14 2005, 08:47 PM
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I'm willing to bet that anything in orbit can be taken down. Getting aboard - sure, ultimately impossible without someone on the inside to do it for you, but destroying Z-O should be doable. Large amount of small debris in a counter-orbit ought to at least do a good job against it, and though there are certainly countermeasures, it'd be tough to stop a whole cloud of little things. Some sort of directed-energy weapon either from another orbital platform or from the ground (yeah, atmospheric bloom is a bitch, but I'm sure they can get around it in 2063 if they can make workable pistol-lasers) would be even better.

From an administrative standpoint, there's probably less hoops to jump through to smuggle something aboard an outbound shuttle, than to get it all the way on the station. Some sort of high-yield weapon in close? Tough, but it should be doable.

OF course, the cost of any of these options would be prohibitive...
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Jun 14 2005, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (Plan B @ Jun 14 2005, 01:50 PM)
I'm not talking bringing it down...I was thinking more along the lines of managing to get into ZO??

Well, let's put it this way--Do you really think one of the permanent residents fell out of an airlock by accident?
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Jrayjoker
post Jun 14 2005, 08:55 PM
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Since I have't read that, where does it occur (i.e. in which book/novel)?
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nezumi
post Jun 14 2005, 08:55 PM
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Hmm... Presuming we had an unlimited budget...

First I'd invest a few billion in making cybernetic bodies/making myself one step short of a cyberzombie, with all sorts of bells and whistles, including air tanks, and a much smaller frame.

Then I'd get a custom suborbital with a smaller shuttle inside, coated with rhuethumium, and a bunch of other stuff to help avoid radar, all that jazz.

Then I'd take all that stuff and run away, laughing, and live the rest of my life quietly in some dark corner of Amazonia.
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Bigity
post Jun 14 2005, 08:58 PM
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Doesn't mean outside shadowrunners did the deed though.
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Eldritch
post Jun 14 2005, 08:58 PM
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The 'Staff' - theres got to be people up there performing maintenance - cleaning, servicing equipment, preparing food - etc. Use them - either spend some time to infiltrate via that route - a decent face, a decker, and a year or so should do it.

I would think that the staff gets rotated in and out, you wouldn't want to stay up there for very long, and the corps wouldn't want to got through the hassel of training and clearing employee after employee - they could be on a six month rotation, with some back ups available.

Or snag a fam member of a staff member, that'll get you some access. Depends on what you want.

Blow it up? Access the Mainframe? Deliver a Pizza? (Just so you could say you did)

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SpasticTeapot
post Jun 14 2005, 08:58 PM
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If it were possible to generate a manasphere, I would simply use a physical manipulation spell ("Increase Relative Gravity" or the like) and create a gargantuan ball of metallic debris, then fling it at the space station. Laser weapons would just turn it into a giant ball of semi-liquid metal, and if it were moving sufficiently fast, it would be impossible to shoot down.
Otherwise, just drill small cavities in tiny meteorites, which would likely just be absorbed by the station's outer "skin." (From what I've heard, NASA is working on a system for preventing meteorite damage that works by sandwiching thin aluminum sheets between 1" layers of foam. Projectiles moving at 2,000 kph. or more would be stopped harmlessly.) A few thousand of these, each holding ~10g of C4 and detonated by a few with a tiny time bomb placed inside instead, could blow up a good bit of the station, and likely cause explosive decompression.
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hermit
post Jun 14 2005, 09:37 PM
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And the space station could just move out of the way of any swarm of objects, because these are quite visible in space. There're quite enough ways to trace anything larger than a shard of metal - and anything smaller would not suffice, since any decent spaceship is armoured.

Space stations can move, you know. they have jets. They're basically spaceships with no big engines that hover in one place.

Unless you extend Earth's Manasphere and do ST's DragonballZ-style attack (what was it called again? Haduken?).

Finally, the shapechange spell in my suggestion should be permanent, too, and not require any upkeep. Maybe cosmetic surgery would be a better way, though. Just been reading too much Harry Potter lately, I guess.
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SpasticTeapot
post Jun 14 2005, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (hermit)
And the space station could just move out of the way of any swarm of objects, because these are quite visible in space. There're quite enough ways to trace anything larger than a shard of metal - and anything smaller would not suffice, since any decent spaceship is armoured.

Space stations can move, you know. they have jets. They're basically spaceships with no big engines that hover in one place.

Unless you extend Earth's Manasphere and do ST's DragonballZ-style attack (what was it called again? Haduken?).

Finally, the shapechange spell in my suggestion should be permanent, too, and not require any upkeep. Maybe cosmetic surgery would be a better way, though. Just been reading too much Harry Potter lately, I guess.

Ideally, you'd slowly pepper the thing with tiny rocks over weeks, or even months. The owners would never notice the additional few bits of debris.
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hermit
post Jun 14 2005, 10:19 PM
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No, but they'd notice the leaks, and they'd be perfectly able to reverse-calculate their course. Then, they'd check their sensors' recordings, exchange data with spysats of allied corps and governments, and they have you nailed down.

And if you slowly want to erode a part of the hull? ZO has repair drones, you know.
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Hasaku
post Jun 14 2005, 11:57 PM
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I'd probably do something with nanites. Some kind of Von Neumann machines could be landed on the skin of the station undetected, then go to work increasing their number. Once there were enough of them, they could possibly construct and place explosives sufficient to disable the facility.

If they didn't have any countermeasures on board, you could always go for a grey goo scenario. Endlessly replicating nanites make more of themselves until there's simply no station left. The whole mess either falls into the atmosphere and burns (good) or is brought back down to Earth by visiting ships (very bad).
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