 Horrors, Cycle of Magic and Immortal Elves..., Will they still exist? |
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 Jun 20 2005, 09:52 PM
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#26
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392  |
The immortal elves are something that doesn't need to be in shadowrun...just like horrors...besides the whole purpose of this board is to let people voice their opinions and observations about SR so any freelancers shouldn't be here expecting all comments to be positive about "their" product
And I am finished crying into your beer...I've already decided that the only costs I'm going to pay for any SR4 products are going to be spending the time to download the PDFs SR4 should be distancing itself from the ED connections...at least if it wants to establish itself as a non-FASA product |
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Jun 20 2005, 10:47 PM
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#27
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
It's no surprise that I disagree here, since I have previously been quite vocal in my support of tying Earthdawn and Shadowrun together. More importantly, since those connections are already implied in the canon, there is going to be some fairly major rewriting to be done if you're going to get rid of them without a massive increase in the Cheese Factor (I remember somebody coming up with the plot idea that actually Harlequin is insane and hallucinating about all this - amusing, but as an explanation for all that has happened, ultimately cheesy in the extreme). AH's excellent materials illustrate the references, very helpfully. (Random thanks to AH, btw, for making my life a damned sight easier :) "It is too late for me... Ancient History is my master now"...) I used the Horrors and the cycle of magic backstory myself, for my high-end players (okay, they weren't high end by the standards of some of the characters I've seen on here, but 350 karma characters were pretty impressive by our standards :D ). Those characters were moving beyond the normal, well, run of shadowrunning and becoming involved with the people and events that shaped the world they thought they knew. Kind of an Epic Level Handbook for Shadowrun, much as I hate to bring the dread d20 up on these boards ;) After all, sooner or later characters are going to run out of motivations for doing the old job. Conveniently, we have a whole new job scene for them. (I also used the backstory obliquely in a standard Shadowun mission I posted here several months ago; I don't fancy trying to search the forums on dialup :/ , but it might still be there if you have a faster connection and greater intestinal fortitude than I ) |
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Jun 21 2005, 04:50 AM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 21-December 04 Member No.: 6,893 |
If I were designing SR4, I would put out a module in which the runners must go to the universe of the horrors, to fight them on their home turf. It would be, in effect, the ultimate Shadowrun; if you fudge up, not only will you die, but the entire world as you know it would be instantly snuffed out.
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Jun 21 2005, 05:21 AM
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#29
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
if you were designing SR, your head would decorate my mantle. i would buy a house with a mantle, just for that purpose.
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Jun 21 2005, 06:26 AM
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#30
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
That's actually got nothing to do with being the "ultimate Shadowrun." It's not really a Shadowrun. It's a comic book super-hero job, yes, but not a "Shadowrun." I would help MFB with the paperwork and down payment for his home, mantle, and a nice plaque for the head-mounting. |
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Jun 21 2005, 07:28 AM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850 |
And I would definitely not buy the module. ;)
What were you going to call it? Harlequin's Hangover? :silly: |
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Jun 21 2005, 07:55 AM
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#32
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Not even ED offers such an adventure and it's completly unlikely in SR. |
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Jun 21 2005, 12:08 PM
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#33
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
A bit on the supers side, isn't it? Besides, SR isn't about players changing the entire universe. I found HB beyond what I'd like to see already too epic, and Harley can really annoy me, besides, what good was my character's suffering if Dunky does the same and gets all the credit for it? That module would make HB seem like playing Glow City squatters. It would be slightly over the top for the likes of Champions. It's akin to CoC players blowing R'Lyeh apart, killing Cthulluh and mounting his head onto a giant plaque and expose it in the museum of natural curiosities in Arkham. In other words, it's something I would never, ever play. No offense meant, but my style is more like 2XS in scope, at most. |
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Jun 21 2005, 01:35 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390 |
In my games, I still use IE. But not as major characters... I use them as political figures reprensenting the Tir's and my players usually don't know that they lived that long.
I mean, there is nothing wrong for the elves to be immortal imho. The only thing that is wrong is to use them to save the day. They can be excellent Mr. Johnson's (the same way that several of us use free spirits and dragons for that purpose). I think they are only annoying when you find them everywhere you go... I once GMed a campaing where the runners were hired by the Dunklezahn Institute of Magical Research. That was Aina herself that greeted the players. It went pretty well... The players knew who Aina is however their characters didn't knew it... So they did some legwork to finally find out that there was several rumors about renaissance portraits looking like her and rumors of her age. That was enough... not more, not less... The game went pretty well. |
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Jun 22 2005, 06:39 AM
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#35
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Target Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 15-June 05 Member No.: 7,448 |
Hey dumb question, but are you guys getting all of this information from sourcebooks or novels in SR or what? I've only got SR3 and the basics (M and M, CC, MITS, etc) but the general Shadowrun universe has always interested me. Just don't know which books to look for.
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Jun 22 2005, 07:00 AM
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#36
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
ancient history's site has a pretty good bibliography. it's a nice primer for the metaplot(s), and can point you to the books you need for more detailed info.
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Jun 22 2005, 07:19 AM
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#37
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
I really hate the SR/ED connection myself... or rather, I don;t hate it, but dislike the way it got implemented.
SR always had the "Ages of Magic" thing going for it. But ED was not originally designed to be an earlier design for Shadowrun. That was a last minute addition, and is why the games don't quite match up. And AH, for your notes, it's been unofficially stated (And is not contraditced anywhere in game material) that the Magic waves are not consistant. While one age may take 5000 years to rise and fall, another might only take 1000. Either way, no, we won;t be seeing Horrors in SR anytime soon. They were headed that way for a while, with certain corps and entities making moves to build up areas of magic high enough to allow for Horros to come through, but those were blocked off in the game fiction, and I don't believe we'll have that stuff cropping up again anytime soon. Bull |
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Jun 22 2005, 07:25 AM
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#38
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
indeed. for the reason i'm uncomfortable with the ED-SR connection, see spasticteapot's last post in this thread. don't get me wrong, heroic fantasy is great in its place. but that place isn't, i think, SR.
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Jun 22 2005, 08:20 AM
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#39
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Just my two :nuyen:, I would buy a game called Harlequin's Hangover
adventuring to the horror's plane..... rather pass |
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Jun 22 2005, 12:53 PM
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#40
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Hell, I'm nutty about the ED/SR plot, and I don't like cosmic games. One Harlequin's Back will do you for at least three or four editions.
Bull: Well, that explains a lot. |
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Jun 22 2005, 01:43 PM
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#41
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Saving the world may not be a normal shadowrun, but it can be still a shadowrun. Saving the world is the run. It is not the normal run of datasteal or extraction or wetwork but it is a run just the same. Along the way, they might get double-crossed by the Johnson, they get paid, they don't get to talk about it, the people they piss off might try to get back at them, etc.
Heroic fantasy can be part of SR. Unless you as the GM has closed your mind off to that type of game, SR can certainly support that sort of campaign. |
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Jun 22 2005, 04:20 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 18-October 04 From: Tujunga, CA Member No.: 6,768 |
A little on Verjigorm.
This might be wrong, as I have not read the old books in a long time. AH can always corerect me. But from what I understand All Wing was a Great Dragon, one of the greatest. Only three of her final clutch made it to become adult dragons. All Wing died when they were in the middle of their transformation into dragons. The three brothers took a big interest in the world and other name givers. After mastering some disciplines one of the three brothers wanted to further his studies of neathermancey and traveled far into astral space. He found the horrors, and the horrors tortured him, and finally joined with him creating Verjigorm. Now armed with the knowledge of the all you can eat buffet called earth, they prepared for the 1st scourge. The other two brothers I talk about were Ice Wing (Ghost Walker) and our dead president, uncle Dunky. |
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Jun 22 2005, 04:23 PM
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#43
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
...where the bloody Hell did you get that?
No. Verjigorm is much older than either Ghostwalker/Icewing and Dunkelzahn/Mountainshadow, and in any event is not, and as far as anyone knows, never was a dragon. |
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Jun 22 2005, 04:41 PM
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#44
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I'm sure AH will crack me in the plums if I am wrong, but Verjigorm was the progenitor of all the horrors and All Wings, right?
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Jun 22 2005, 04:49 PM
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#45
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Avatar of Mediocrity Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 725 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle, WA (err, UCAS) Member No.: 277 |
According to the Draconic legends from the Horrors sourcebook, that's right. Whether that's actual truth, a legend, or just a way for the Eater of Cities to brag that Dragon was the first child of All-Wings, and the other metaraces were later, isn't clear. I'd say it's just legend though. |
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Jun 22 2005, 04:58 PM
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#46
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Then what are the passions? Theya re not gods,or totems yes? As I recalled they were the closest thing to gods that ED/SR had, is that right?
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Jun 22 2005, 05:12 PM
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#47
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
They are the closest thing to gods. I haven't played enough to say if they're actual individual entities, but I don't recollect reading that they were 'created'. They just always were.
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Jun 22 2005, 05:32 PM
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#48
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 27-May 05 From: Toulouse, France Member No.: 7,416 |
You know, to me, the main strength about Shadowrun is not about cyberpunk but about the fact that this game integrates most of our world's cultures and legends into the whole.
Furthermore, the end of the world is a recurrent theme in many cultures so I see no problem at all with the dev's using the Mayan Calendar nor the fact that immortal elves exist in SR. After all, elves are supposed to be immortal in the very first place! Now, the cycle of magic is a very important idea in how magic relates to cultures from the past too. So all in all, I do hope they keep all that because these are integral parts of Shadowrun. |
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Jun 22 2005, 06:02 PM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
My take on the Passions are that they're ideals that got strong enough that they became real, physical entities. So basically totems. |
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Jun 22 2005, 06:14 PM
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#50
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Elves at least pre-tolken elves were what most of use would call fairies. They had a wide range of looks and themes, few if any were remotely human looking, and fewer still were imortal. |
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