Firearms statistics program - Dumpshock Forums

Firearms statistics program, Is it possible to kill someone with 6L?

JesterX View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 06:24 PM Post #1
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390	Is it possible to actuall kill someone wearing a lined coat (Ballistic 4) with a single bullet from a 6L damage coded light-pistol? Yes it is! (But VERY unlikely!) I've done a small piece of software that tests the scenario a number of time... Here are the stats: Attacker: Firearm Skill: 6 Combat Pool Used: 6 Target Number To Hit: 4 Base Damage: 6L Defender: Body Attribute: 4 Combat Pool Used: 4 Ballistic Armor: 4 Number of Tests: 1,000,000 (1 million) Results: Miss: 248 Dodged: 123394 Totally Soaked: 581365 Before Soaking L: 2875 Before Soaking M: 69607 Before Soaking S: 314236 Before Soaking D: 613034 After Soaking L: 265184 After Soaking M: 29082 After Soaking S: 725 After Soaking D: 2 2 deaths on 1 million tries! lol If you have other tests you want me to perform, just ask... ^_^

Supercilious View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 06:28 PM Post #2
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 7-December 04 Member No.: 6,873	Who says a Predator III is better than a Beretta?

Vaevictis View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 06:31 PM Post #3
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441	Dude, this is exactly why a smartlink-2 is absolutely, positively necessary. :)

JesterX View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 06:33 PM Post #4
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390	Can someone recall me the rules for Called Shot? I'm gonna try this by targetting unprotected area...

JesterX

Jun 20 2005, 06:42 PM

Post #5

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QUOTE (Vaevictis)

Dude, this is exactly why a smartlink-2 is absolutely, positively necessary. :)

With a smartlink-2:

(TN2 instead of 4!)

Miss: 0
Dodged: 85
Soaked: 543434
Before L: 0
Before M: 16
Before S: 1233
Before D: 998751
After L: 408827
After M: 46451
After S: 1199
After D: 4

As you can see, the smartlink didn't make such a difference... But look at that Before Soaking Deadly staging!!! 998751 shots will have made a kill before staging down!!!

That almost doubled the chances also to produce a wound at all...

JesterX View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 06:44 PM Post #6
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390	You can also see that a VERY FEW number of bullets were totally dodged (Combat Pool Success exceeding attackers successes) 85 dodges out of 1 million bullet... This smartlink sure helped to track the target! ^_^

blakkie View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 06:51 PM Post #7
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263	The smartlink made a substantial difference in the number of times any damage at all was sustained, raising from approximately 1/3 to 1/2.

hobgoblin

Jun 20 2005, 06:56 PM

Post #8

panda!

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QUOTE (JesterX)

Can someone recall me the rules for Called Shot? I'm gonna try this by targetting unprotected area...

a called shot cant do that in canon, what it can do is increase the damage level by one so that L bacomes M, M becomes S or S becomes D. but it allso increases the target number by 4, so its a bad idea unless your a crack shot or have smartlink.

and a bit of clarifications of those statistics please, are the damage levels indicating where they ended up before and after the body/soak roll? maybe move those total soaked statistics to between before soak D and after soak L to make it a bit more clear. or maybe split them up in groups for simpler reading ;)

and im guessing a lot of the before L and M's ended up in the totaly soaked statistic...

JesterX View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 07:00 PM Post #9
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 358 Joined: 12-May 05 From: The nearest UV host near you... Member No.: 7,390	Let's try again with no Smartlink against a Troll (Body 10) that doesn't wear any armor and doesn't bother to use dices from his combat pool... You'll probably be surprised... Miss: 240 Dodged: 0 Soaked: 9774 Before L: 3006 Before M: 69466 Before S: 313727 Before D: 613561 After L: 65566 After M: 234211 After S: 425776 After D: 264433 26.4% of the bullets kills the Troll! Trolls... don't go our without your lined-coat!

JesterX

Jun 20 2005, 07:05 PM

Post #10

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QUOTE (Hobgoblin)

and a bit of clarifications of those statistics please, are the damage levels indicating where they ended up before and after the body/soak roll? maybe move those total soaked statistics to between before soak D and after soak L to make it a bit more clear. or maybe split them up in groups for simpler reading

and im guessing a lot of the before L and M's ended up in the totaly soaked statistic...

You're right, when I type "before soak" it means that the staging went this high before making the opposed body/pool roll...

And yes, Totally Soaked means that the damage went below "L" after making the Body roll...

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 07:20 PM Post #11
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	ouch, nice to know that you can (in theory atleast) stop a troll in its tracks with a gun doing L damage :P hmm, would be interesting to see how many times the shooter got a rule of 1 result. maybe allso for the target (or are they immune from that effect? i dont recall).

JesterX

Jun 20 2005, 07:23 PM

Post #12

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QUOTE (hobgoblin)

ouch, nice to know that you can (in theory atleast) stop a troll in its tracks with a gun doing L damage :P

hmm, would be interesting to see how many times the shooter got a rule of 1 result. maybe allso for the target (or are they immune from that effect? i dont recall).

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add that for my software... ^_^

Vaevictis

Jun 20 2005, 07:27 PM

Post #13

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QUOTE (hobgoblin)

a called shot cant do that in canon, what it can do is increase the damage level by one so that L bacomes M, M becomes S or S becomes D.

I was under the impression that a called shot could avoid armor -- mm.35, "When a called shot is made against a character, or a specific limb or area is otherwise targeted or damaged, use only the armor rating for that location."

Under that, called shot to the head against this guy stages damage up (per sr3.114) AND bypasses armor (per mm.35).

While you're at it, against guy in lined coat v. 6L pistol... might as well use Smartlink-II called shot to head -- bypass armor, stage up one damage level, use glazer round for another stage up and +2 power... They'll be dealing with 8S/TN:4, with no armor to absorb real quick.

Austere Emancipa...

Jun 20 2005, 07:37 PM

Post #14

Great Dragon

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QUOTE (Vaevictis)

I was under the impression that a called shot could avoid armor -- mm.35, "When a called shot is made against a character, or a specific limb or area is otherwise targeted or damaged, use only the armor rating for that location."

Didn't someone have a "frequent topic list" or something like that on his/her website? It should have about 150 threads under "Called Shots", more than half of which include that quote at or near the very top. A few to get you started.

Let's not get into that again.

Vaevictis View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 07:47 PM Post #15
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441	Okay. Still want to called shot to bypass armor then (per FAQ). You'd be 8M/TN 4, no armor. I can't tell you how many times I've come in on a called shot with my Morresey Elite w/ Glazers after my katana-wielding elf friend burns up all their combat pool. :)

ShadowGhost View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 07:56 PM Post #16
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 376 Joined: 14-July 03 Member No.: 4,928	Don't forget that always fun second shot on a semi-auto! Which ought to really screw up those statistics, particularly on dodging, if they take a wound on the first shot. And in this case (statistically), it really comes down to who has the most Karma Pool to blow on attack/defense.

hobgoblin

Jun 20 2005, 09:25 PM

Post #17

panda!

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QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)

QUOTE (Vaevictis)

I was under the impression that a called shot could avoid armor -- mm.35, "When a called shot is made against a character, or a specific limb or area is otherwise targeted or damaged, use only the armor rating for that location."

Didn't someone have a "frequent topic list" or something like that on his/her website? It should have about 150 threads under "Called Shots", more than half of which include that quote at or near the very top. A few to get you started.

Let's not get into that again.

ah, expect sr4 to contradict itself :P
i was going by sr3 main, and forgot/overlooked that little line in the cyberlimb section of m&m.

ill not comment about how to interpet that one but i realy hope that this is something that will be cleared up in sr4 (alltho it seems that they fixing everything but the real problems of sr3).

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jun 20 2005, 10:44 PM Post #18
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,952 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	I'm working on doing this out mathematically. Two things: first off, you've got an abnormally high number of misses. Secondly, how did you allocate pool? While I'll have to look at it more, it looks on the surface like dodging is never advantageous (example: trying to dodge a single-success attack with four points of pool yields a 93.75% chance of success, and then there's an 86.806% chance of soaking with four points of body, leaving a total 99.175% chance of no damage. Compare to soaking with four points of Body and four of pool (three successes, TN 2, 8 dice) for a 99.956% chance of no damage), so it shouldn't be represented. ~J

tisoz View Member Profile	Jun 21 2005, 01:13 AM Post #19
Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,931 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920	My last group had a lady who used the Walther with smartlink 2 and made a lot of called shots usually to bypass armor. I think she used ExExplosive so the damage was 8L. 2 shots (SA) usually killed what she was shooting at. Second shot usually wasn't a called shot to help keep TN reasonable. Had a lot of one shot kills by aiming then firing the called shot. 12D6 rolled at TN3 (4 base - 2 smlk2 + 2 called shot - 1 aim) doing 8L damage with no armor to stage damage down.

Raygun View Member Profile	Jun 21 2005, 03:55 AM Post #20
Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176	runs around wildly in circles, waving arms in the air Arrrrrrghh!! You can't bypass armor with Called Shots! AHHHHHHH! Broken! Broken! Abstract! Broken! runs out of the room ;)

Krazy View Member Profile	Jun 21 2005, 05:16 AM Post #21
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 149 Joined: 21-March 05 From: UCAS (if its tuesday) Member No.: 7,200	avoiding hitting a vest by putting a round through an un armored forehead is broken? I can't think so. but that's just me. of course, as a GM I need some easy way of puting down rabid PCs. the rules as written make very little sence to me (up damage or bypass armor?) (trying desperatly to cover up the fact that I missed the wink on the prev post. Damn!)

Critias View Member Profile	Jun 21 2005, 06:28 AM Post #22
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714	No good can come of the called shot conversation continuing.

Raygun View Member Profile	Jun 21 2005, 06:42 AM Post #23
Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176	Are you kidding? Instead of like dying in a car accident or something, someone might actually stay here and argue for the 5,437,983rd time how bypassing armor with a called shot is sixteen different kinds of brokestract. That's good, isn't it?

Critias View Member Profile	Jun 21 2005, 06:45 AM Post #24
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714	No. I'd rather see the car accident, to be honest.

Raygun View Member Profile	Jun 21 2005, 06:55 AM Post #25
Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176	Let me get this straight. You'd rather a human being died than hear the 5,437,983rd version of this argument? You heartless commie.

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