 Infiltration Challenge, Examining situation variables |
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 Apr 15 2004, 08:43 PM
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#476
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689  |
Are we all waiting for someone else to post? :scatter:
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Apr 15 2004, 08:52 PM
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#477
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Well, I'm not sure. Everyone seems at a loss here (good job, btw) :D
My vote depends on whether or not Trog can disrupt himself and invoke that "snapback" effect. He'll more than likely lose a Magic point, but he can take a Geas or initiate later. If he can, then he does it, and the other two hoof it. Otherwise things get complicated. :) |
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Apr 16 2004, 02:50 AM
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#478
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
:rotfl:
If the package is dual natured we can try anchoring the spider silk line through the danger area and have the package 'carry' togdor across. This would probably help with the current, since it would give them a bit of an anchor. Of course, we aren't sure that the package is dual natured. He has stunball, which he can use to disrupt himself... Normally it would be the choice of the player wether to risk disruption or to try traveling through the earth... I would guess the best way to do it would be to try to travel through the earth, and then use disruption if he is running out of time. We can move his body to the medicine lodge, then Diamond can keep a lookout for him, so that we can move his body back out for him to occupy it. This will probably be a short conversation between Trogdor and Ghost, will the package chime in with anything? |
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Apr 16 2004, 05:28 AM
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#479
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
I like this approach. |
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Apr 16 2004, 07:23 AM
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#480
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Agreed. I hadn't considered stunball.
I wonder, though, OoC, is there any way to resist the Deadly drain if the spell itself knocks you out? Also, would the drain be physical (in which case he's really in trouble) or stun (in which case he's taking up to four boxes of overflow, since the spell is being cast in Astral space, but the Drain test doesn't happen until after the effect which will snap him back into his body)? And wow, what an esoteric question! :P |
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Apr 16 2004, 07:53 AM
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#481
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
All drain while projecting is physical, iirc.
You resist drain after spell effects, even if you are KO'd |
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Apr 16 2004, 07:58 AM
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#482
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Yes, but as I'm reading it, those are mutually exclusive. "You resist drain after spell effects." "All drain while projecting is physical." You're not projecting anymore after the spell is cast, right? :D |
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Apr 16 2004, 08:00 AM
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#483
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Erm, interupts resolve in reverse order? :grinbig:
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Apr 16 2004, 08:25 AM
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#484
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
heh, wrong genre. :D :rotfl:
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Apr 16 2004, 04:25 PM
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#485
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
Interesting point :D How often in practical game runs does the magician running overwatch seriously consider knocking himself out for survival purposes? (For a Dragon Slayer shaman, that might come close to requiring a WL roll as well.)
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Apr 16 2004, 06:31 PM
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#486
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
I'm not up on my magic, so this might not at all be useful, but; if he casts *anything* at a strong enough force to take physical drain while projecting, causing KO, perhaps disruption can occur as a result of resisting drain from casting a useful LOS spell on our remaining people in the building. thusly: 1) casts some business-> 2) resists drain, 3) goes unconsious, 4) disruption, 5) ... 6) profit? |
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Apr 16 2004, 06:53 PM
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#487
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Ah, but the problem is that you aren't disrupted unless you take deadly Stun damage (sr3 p. 176, third paragraph down). Since all damage from spells is physical it won't ever disrupt you; you'll just eventually die from overdamage. The interesting thing is, if you look at that paragraph they specify being disrupted in astral combat as when a character must check for magic loss. Since they don't specify astral combat anywhere above that, maybe all other circumstances--for instance, knocking yourself out--where you would be disrupted don't actually force you to check for magic loss? Anyway, I agree that you'd need some kind of Willpower roll to knock yourself out, or at least a Willpower roll to determine if you can force yourself to fail your spell resistance test. Maybe another roll to determine if you can "catch yourself" in time to make the drain resistance test? Ugh that's pretty complicated: 1. Sorcery test 2. Willpower to withhold Spell Resistance (TN 6?) 2b. Spell Resistance 3. Willpower to keep Drain Resistance (TN 6?) 3b. Drain Resistance |
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Apr 16 2004, 08:14 PM
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#488
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
we were just about to cut communications with the outside, have we done that yet? if not, could we ask somebody to poke him with a stun baton or club him or something? stun damage until he's disrupted? |
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Apr 16 2004, 08:38 PM
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#489
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
This is where we were at before Trog got sucked down the corridor, and that's what Ghost and the Package are sticking to. Trog fell behind, so he gets left behind; Ghost has neither the time nor the inclination to try to knock him out in astral combat. Ghost and the Package use the elevator to get out, and Trog can either go exploring, disrupt himself, or dig his way out. Either way, the elevator's leaving, and the two physical people have to be on it before Solitaire leaves, the cameras come back on and we get stuck. We've already lost probably twenty to thirty seconds sitting here watching Trogdor get burninated; let's not waste more. |
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Apr 16 2004, 11:59 PM
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#490
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
I think I'm not articulating myself clearly here... I'm not saying ghost attacks trogdor... where's trogdor's body? with the rigger? I'm suggesting the rigger inflict stun damage on trogdor's body. |
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Apr 20 2004, 01:53 PM
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#491
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
It's understood time isn't wasted after the initial reaction.
I thought you were discussing the pros and cons of breaking all contact with the outside. Within this "let's examine" context, that discussion's not taking actual "run" time. Re casting in astral: yes, physical damage. Sorry for not catching what the actual actions are to be, here, if you've posted and agreed upon them - been a 'flu week, here. I'm just getting over it. |
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Apr 21 2004, 06:20 PM
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#492
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
Can we try what Crusher Bob suggests?
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Apr 21 2004, 06:32 PM
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#493
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Well, if we try anything we have to resolve to not pull Ghost and the Package out before the guards get to the roof. Being that the package's safety is our top priority--even moreso than the health and well-being of our team members--putting the Package at risk to prevent Trog from risking a Magic point just isn't good strategy. I vote we get Ghost and the Package out now, while we've still got a window to do it. In five minutes we won't.
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Apr 21 2004, 08:55 PM
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#494
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
Can we be certain we won't *need* Trogdor to ensure the safe and effective removal of the Package? If we decide to cut Trogdor loose to deal with it on his own, he might be stuck underground or unavailable for the rest of the mission. Is there anything that *Only* Trogdor can do that cannot be done by another member of our team, say Diamond? |
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Apr 21 2004, 09:41 PM
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#495
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
All right, I'm going to attempt catching up on this - sorry I've left it so long - but my head's still far from clear. (Believe me, some parts of the "Let's stun myself!" discussion definitely gain from seeing it this way :twirl: ) So far as you can tell, she's not dual natured. (Sorry if I'm repeating myself, or if I didn't say that before.)
No - I'd gathered that there was some question as to exactly when or even whether you wanted those communications disrupted until Ghost and the girl were out of the building. You're all on the same page re Trogdor suggestions, so it's safe to guess that one way or another, Trogdor is left to his fate. It's out of Ghost's hands at any rate. So after the (game-time brief!) delay the two present physically make it past the central chamber and are bolting for the elevator, which opens on cue. They're inside. It closes. They're on their way up (how far is up to you). Solitaire mentions that it was much harder to open the elevator back doors this time (ref. p.4) - what system security there is has definitely increased: still mostly "trap" software, but she has also had to stealth a couple of determined traces. (Current tally: 7 ... -> 8 as she's talking to you) Trogdor: Except for spirits, I don't know the disruption rules in that much detail. I've never run into this before. I can say for the spell itself spell damage is stun (obviously!), and I'll second Crusher Bob that all drain damage while astrally projecting is physical. Drain damage is immediate upon casting the spell, regardless of whether or not the spell succeeds, so it's automatically first acquired. Beyond that, I'm lost. Eyeless Blond, you cited the section: could you please quote the relevant passage(s)? Also, in casting Stunball (physical spell? not mana?), does Trogdor have to see the body it's being cast upon? (Lots of ways around the spell though, for a body to acquire sufficient stun damage.) If no helpful rules lawyer can come up with an official ruling (I can't think of anything, but that doesn't mean much), I'll make a ruling next post - and it most definitely will involve probability of magic loss, even if the book only specifies such loss in astral combat. (Considering what disruption means, it's just wrong not to.) We'll just take the WL roll as a successful given. I can see one huge practical problem however: if we accept that any type of stunning damage equates to astral combat stun, how could anyone willing to cast stun-deadly magic on themself ever be trapped astrally within the rules? It seems like the universal "out".
Safe to assume that, regardless, there would be some quick and audible communication between Trogdor and Ghost as to options before the decision is made. (Audible, because it sounds like you want the girl to hear.) She's listening - mostly she's really wanting out of there - but she's not chiming in with anything (although when he suggests disrupting himself she shudders). If you ask her she'll shrug, although she'll look upset doing it. "Maybe," she finally ventures, "if you had an earth-type conjured before you went in? I mean, maybe, like a guide?" Meanwhile, outside: The other gang's here. Diamond is suddenly in the middle of a knives-and-firefight ... and they're not too picky about differentiating targets. |
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Apr 22 2004, 12:37 AM
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#496
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
As I said, high time to be gone. There still seems to be some contention over whether we should leave Trog behind or not, though, so maybe we should finish that debate before moving to this point?
The rules for disruption are on page 176:
On the same pages btw are rules for making unarmed attacks on the astral plane. Maybe he could do that instead to avoid the physical drain of Stunball? Either way, Trog should make sure to do this while tunneling through the earth, so he doesn't leave astral traces of the spell or the disruption. And under no circumstances should he go exploring; whatever's drawing him in is almost certainly Very. Bad. and nothing we particularly need to worry ourselves over.
Well, I suppose it pretty much is, yes. I don't really see a problem with that myself. Of course, you are still more than likely losing a magic point to do it (or taking a geas), which really bites hard. |
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Apr 22 2004, 03:08 AM
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#497
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
For what it's worth, I'd like to withdraw my concerns regarding leaving Trogdor on his own... EB, if you support it, it's probably the way to go... also Talia doesn't seem to think there's much Ghost or the Package can do for Trogdor, so where we can do no good, let's allow no harm to come to pass either, and get our butts out.
I'd suggest Diamond adopt a more defensive rather than offensive posture, and move to the periphery if not leave the rumble all together. as for the Package's suggestion, iirc we had 4 elementals on tap: air, air, fire, and water, I think... this is Seattle... is the soil damp? :( |
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Apr 22 2004, 03:35 AM
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#498
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Trogdor has the flaw Spirit Bane(Sea), this may apply to water elementals :rotfl:
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Apr 22 2004, 06:17 AM
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#499
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Now that I think about it, enchanting yourself a 'magicl compass' focus that shows you N/S/E/W and Up/Down would be pretty simple and be a pretty ahndy thing to have.
Force 1 and 2-3 karma to bind? |
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Apr 22 2004, 06:26 AM
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#500
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Or better yet, a Compass spell. Some sort of Detection spell with hopefully light drain?
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