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 London Boom, 7/7-05 Another date to remember? |
 Jul 7 2005, 08:36 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323  |
Well, remember we're dealing with a guy who was trained to take on the Soviet Union (by the Americans... we can look back now and say that was pretty dumb of us, but that's 20/20 hindsight and at the time it was a good plan). Basically, the goal is to piss off the superpower into blowing its resources fighting against invisible targets that it can't hit. It worked great in Afganistan against the Soviets during that war, and was a major cause of the bankruptcy that caused that nation to fall apart, and it's working now too. Frankly, I think the reason they keep hitting civilian targets is precisely because they want people pissed off... they want this war to escalate, and don't care for the civilian casualties that will mount on both sides. It's an effective way to fight a superpower, but it means a lot of deaths for people who aren't involved and who are totally innocent of the crimes that Al-Queda and the like hate us for. It's like murdering a child to piss off the parents. My condolences to all those wounded or killed in this attack, and to those who knew them. These people kill without caring about the consequences for those who only wanted to live their lives in peace. JaronK |
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Jul 7 2005, 09:09 PM
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#27
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Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 14-June 05 Member No.: 7,444 |
As a Brit, I can honestly say it's not really that big a thing over here. We're used to the IRA in the 90's now; desensitized to attacks of this nature. 37 dead apparently, 6 tube stations and a bus bomb.
A drop in the ocean compared to, say, Omagh. |
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Jul 7 2005, 09:13 PM
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#28
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
Well, by nature, terrorist attacks are indiscriminate, so it's very logical to assume that they don't care who is killed. Liberals use the buses and subways just as much as conservatives.
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Jul 7 2005, 10:13 PM
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#29
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Does anyone wish, just for a few seconds, that we could get Dystopian on their asses, start doing whole villiages where we find them, dropping FAEs like candy and such?
I mean, yes, it's reprehensible and wrong. But does anyone else just wish we could turn the fraggers into a plate-glass desert? |
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Jul 7 2005, 10:24 PM
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#30
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
As much as I want goose stepping foot soldiers at every corner. Wile we are at, who needs civil liberties? If you have donething wrong you got nothing to fear.
We sink to their level and they win. That is the only way they can win. |
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Jul 7 2005, 10:38 PM
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#31
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
As opposed to now, where you can have done nothing wrong and have everything to fear?
I dunno... |
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Jul 7 2005, 10:51 PM
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#32
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Dear Americans. Get used to it. It's the way it is. Any major European country has seen such attacks before. Idiots blowing up bombs is nothing original here. Just get on with your lives! The chances of being blown to bits (or crippled) by such a bomb is very low indeed. Everything to fear? Hell, life is risk and always ends fatally.
You can either panic, curl up, cry for drastic measures that give you a fake sense of security and live under tinfoil hats in a bunker for the rest of your life, or you can just get fucking over it, give the terrorists the finger and refuse to give in to them! They want you to cower in fear before their awesome might of being able to blow up a couple of innocent people. You cry, they win. You laugh, they lose. |
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Jul 7 2005, 11:05 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Then you'd be doing them a favor. You'd hit innocent villagers, just like they have done to Brittain today. The survivors and the families of the dead would join up. Also, you'd have spent billions of dollars on troops and planes and explosives, thereby weakening your economy, while the perpetrators have likely spent a thousand dollars if that (Bin Laden actually bragged that he was spending one dollar for every million the US spent in retaliation... considering his role in the fall of the Soviet Union, that means something). To answer your second part... yes. Yes a lot of us wish we could blow the hell out of them and everyone around them to get our revenge. But going by that gut reaction won't help at all and will cause a heck of a lot of harm. The actions of nations cannot be motivated by vengence. Frankly, the "give the terrorists the finger and refuse to give in to them" tactic, while crude, is a lot closer to what would help. But that's hard to see when you've lost love ones. So again, the only thing to do right now is mourn for the dead, console those who have lost love ones or been injured, and leave it to cooler heads to decide what to do. |
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Jul 7 2005, 11:10 PM
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#34
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Well, ignoring them alone won't help, to make things clear. We need action by our governments - a wide alliance, not a single egomaniac president, mind you. And we need to trace the terrorists down, like European terrorists were traced and eventually found and neutralised. Carlos was caught eventually. We need patience, faith in our judical systems as they are, and we must not give in to panic and take measures like, sadly, the US have already taken, measures which tear apart the very freedom the government there brags to be defending.
But a good first step is just not giving in to panic. It's an important step, without which none of the others can be taken. |
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Jul 7 2005, 11:24 PM
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#35
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
the problem with saying the war in iraq is a "sad meassure" is that, for the most part, the european nations are used to internal, or near by attackers (the IRA for instance) in case of al queda, we're looking at an entity that is based a long ways away from where the attacks was carried out. In the time it takes me to cross from one end of my state to the other, i could go through atleast a few european countries. its easier to chase perps in that small of an area.
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Jul 7 2005, 11:36 PM
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#36
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
That's a bit extreme, isn't it? I see no foot soldiers and the CIA is hardly in your living room. |
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Jul 7 2005, 11:49 PM
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#37
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 25-October 02 Member No.: 3,498 |
In many ways its harder. Different jurisdictions and law codes, different languages, different political situations, different ethnic groups with different sympathies. Imagine if the Canadian or Mexican border were within a few hours drive from any point in the USA. How easy would it be to chase perps then, as you so quaintly put it... |
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Jul 7 2005, 11:55 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Considering some of the recent actions of the US government (see: Patriot Act), that's not very extreame at all. The Geneva Convention has been all but thrown out, the FBI can do things now that would have caused mass demonstrations before 9/11, and there's been lots of other rather scary bits occuring.
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Jul 8 2005, 12:08 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 7-December 04 Member No.: 6,873 |
The theory of indescriminate revenge is kinda cool, though. Yeah I would rather have my civil liberties and deal with terrorism the way we do; but I would be satisfied on a very deep emotional level if we sent out soldiers with the mission parameters limited to "kill everyone from X to Y."
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Jul 8 2005, 12:07 AM
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#40
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Indescriminate justice, while morally reprehensible, does kind of satisfy that really mean part of you.
Thankfully, most of us are content to just entertain such notions, and go back to doing things the good way. |
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Jul 8 2005, 12:08 AM
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#41
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
well as long as noone starts vanishing from the face of the earth in the middle of the night for no other reason then speaking up against the establishment then we have still a bit to go...
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Jul 8 2005, 12:18 AM
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#42
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Hardly. Any problem can be solved through judicious application of sufficient violence. Provided that you make some preparations beforehand and have the ability and a complete lack of concern for the continued existence of the species, it is indeed viable to solve all problems via bombing essentially everyone else out of existence. There are a number of reasons why this isn't done, but practicality isn't really one of them. ~J |
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Jul 8 2005, 12:17 AM
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#43
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
Examples? |
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Jul 8 2005, 12:59 AM
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#44
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I agree. Attacking Britain or London doesn't achieve anything. A terrorist attack is supposed to spread terror. The worst thing for Al Qaeda(if it is proven to be their handiwork) happened, some people died, but now the security services in Britain have gone through a live field test and (I think) have not been found wanting. Add that to the "Meh?" reaction from the British public, this is not a victory, this is a defeat for terror. |
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Jul 8 2005, 01:48 AM
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#45
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
This is very true, we have not been found wanting. Though there are exceptions, the response of the public is pretty much as you said. Meh. Nothing new at all. The thing i am conserned about is boozed up thugs seeing a middle eastern and kicking ten tons of shite out of them. The middle eastern's know it as well. When i walked to town today through the estate, not a single middle eastern in sight, and i usually see a couple of kids playing or couple of middle aged men chatting. Not one to be seen. |
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Jul 8 2005, 04:39 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183 |
Since America didn't give in to terrorist attacks, and Spain, a European country, did, this whole rant seems a little hypocritical. Maybe we're a little worried about Europe's resolve, as it hasn't been very stable, with the noted exception of Britain, of course. Maybe we're afraid we'll have to bail Europe out again. |
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Jul 8 2005, 04:42 AM
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#47
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Why is it always only Britain and America that ever do the hard work?
Y'know, I think we should just BACK off, and wait about fifty years. See if we have to send our people over to exterminate a pesky hostile occupation force problem for France again... |
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Jul 8 2005, 04:56 AM
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#48
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
And you know what is tragic? Spain is the country where the Spanish Inquisition came out from, never thought they would be the ones to fold. Evidently they don't make Spaniards like they used to. |
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Jul 8 2005, 04:58 AM
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#49
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Yes, but no more than saying we should nuke them back to the stone age. I was not saying that was how life is, I was pointing out that mass bombing on people is just stupid. Just like having the army work as a police force or revoking civil liberties. |
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Jul 8 2005, 05:59 AM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318 |
Did you consider for a second, that, what you describe is exactly the tactic the terrorists use? |
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