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 London Boom, 7/7-05 Another date to remember? |
 Jul 8 2005, 06:10 AM
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#51
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Manus Celer Dei  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802  |
No, no it isn't. Not remotely.
Now, to move away from meaningless terms like "the terrorists", name an organization and I'll explain in more detail why they don't operate in anything like that manner. I can best cover al-Quaida, Palestinian violent civilian action against Israel, US hyperconservative extremism, and the IRA, but I can probably get up to speed on most others fairly quickly. ~J |
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Jul 8 2005, 06:11 AM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318 |
Spain as a nation is nearly a developing country... They lived high on gold stolen from the native americans, but that basically meant that they neglected the industrial development that France, Germany and GB went through. Once the poverty hit, they had revolutions and wasted years and years on internal fighting and corruption. Spain doesn't realisticly have the stamina to wage any kind of prolonged war. Pulling out when the terrorists hit them was just a good (bad) excuse for the sitting government. They feared to fail reelection if they stayed. But public hysteria when you take a soldier onto the camera and threaten to kill them is just ridiculous. Each soldier sent to a warzone is by definition expendable, hopefully not, but when the chips are down his job is to fight the enemy and possibly die. Noone stops a war if a soldier is killed in action. But slap a camera on it and broadcast is across the world and civilians go nuts. I'm not certain that its healthy for democracy to develop into pasifistic ideology where any action outside already democratic areas are a non option. |
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Jul 8 2005, 07:07 AM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Of which? The Geneva convention should be obvious (Gitmo, and various speaches to the effect of "we don't have to"). The Patriot Act is an example... just read the thing... it gives powers to the FBI that are rather frightening (along with other organizations). JaronK |
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Jul 8 2005, 07:39 AM
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#54
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Yeah, Spain threw all the principles it supposedly invades countries and kills tens of thousands for completely out of the window ("freedom", "liberties", and all that). Spain now routinely arrests innocents off the streets because it cannot sort out middle eastern names and tortures them for a year before dumping them somewhere in the Balkans and telling them they'll come back to them, should they ever talk to the press. Spain has a policy of shoot first and ask no questions in Iraq. RIGHT. What values does the US today stand for? Freedom, liberty, pursuit of happyness? Hardly. Gitmo, gunning down civilians in Iraq, greed and the lies used to justify the invasion in the first place is more like it. Sad but true. Terrorists 1, America 0. You see, this is as much a moral as a military/policing struggle. You have to win over people. And by behaving like the US does right now, that is sure to fail.
Ahm ... the inquisition was a good thing now? Jeez, what kind of country has America turned into ... |
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Jul 8 2005, 07:45 AM
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#55
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
That's a pretty serious allegation. I'd like to see proof, and I don't mean a conspiracy theory website.
Oh, we do ask questions. But I'm more concerned for my soldiers' safety than I am for that of terrorists. If someone is approaching a checkpoint and fails to stop, shoot 'em. Sad if they were innocent, but clearly Darwinian. If they had a bomb or something, that's another American who lives another day. |
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Jul 8 2005, 08:53 AM
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#56
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
DARWINIAN? Who the fuck do you people think you are? |
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Jul 8 2005, 09:39 AM
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#57
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
You're fucking pathetic.
A thread starts talking solely about the tragedy of what happened to innocent people in London, and inside a page it turns into America bashing instead. How fucking sad is that? What's that say about the fucking world, and the shithead people that populate it? Shut your piehole, or at least contain your fucking self, hermit. You're disgusting. You can't help but spew your bile on a thread dedicated to sadness over a tragedy. |
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Jul 8 2005, 09:42 AM
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#58
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Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 14-June 05 Member No.: 7,444 |
Darwinian law is survial of the fittest, not most well armed and wealthiest. If anything, being blown up by your own bomb is Darwinian.
Maybe this should be locked down now, as it's going way off course and into bad bad territory. |
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Jul 8 2005, 09:47 AM
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#59
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
Hermit I seriously hope you are joking... If not, go to a place where 6 year olds are taught to be suicide bombers and see how quickly you hug the stranger walking up to you.
Oh and to both derail this thread (and see how quick I can get it closed) Has anyone else heard the rumor that this was merely a planning job? A dry run for the real attack? The real target being FanPro as the true masterminds are a bunch of SR3 fans who are so angry at SR4 they are going to kill all the Developers? (DE and Bull, I will miss you two) |
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Jul 8 2005, 09:53 AM
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#60
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Oh sure, I can see their problem. But gunning down anything that moves too fast won't help either, will it? And Critas, sure, it's the America haters. Nevermind that you guys started derailing this thread by bitching about how Europe didn't have enough resolve. Fuck you. |
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Jul 8 2005, 09:59 AM
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#61
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: That's a joke, isn't it? |
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Jul 8 2005, 10:10 AM
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#62
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Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 14-June 05 Member No.: 7,444 |
I hope it was...
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Jul 8 2005, 10:29 AM
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#63
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 6-August 02 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 3,071 |
I fear it's none...
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Jul 8 2005, 10:47 AM
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#64
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Read their successive replies. It isn't.
We need to remind ourselves that these specific people don't stand for the US at large. |
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Jul 8 2005, 10:49 AM
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#65
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Yeah, yeah. "You guys" derailed the thread. Lump 'em all together, and lash out at all Americans because some Americans said something you didn't like on an internet forum. That makes about as much sense as blowing up all Westerners because some Westerners meddled in your politics, doesn't it? Damn, it's easy to lump people together and hate them for the actions of the few, isn't it? Golly, I wonder how the world got into the state it's in. You're bashing all Americans. Me? I'm talking about you specifically being a hate-filled fuckstick. I'm not pointing fingers at any massive group of people I've decided to hate. I'm pointing a finger at one person -- I'm holding a specific individual responsible for his actions. Demanding accountability isn't the same as prejudice. This thread didn't last two pages before you, the individual to whom I'm speaking, got the ball rolling with a condescending, patronizing, post that started with "Dear Americans," and proceeded to explain to us how Poppa Hermit thinks every individual in the world (but, more specifically, the wayward Americans) has to deal with this sort of thing. You started the generalizations, you started the sarcasm and lumping together of forum-goers, you started the lump of shit rolling downhill with your nationalistic condescension. You, as an individual, are now disliked be me, as an individual. See that? Pure, clean, hatred on a personal level. I'm not hating all Europeans because of you, or all people who end their user name in "it" or anyone who doesn't use capital letters in their user name, or anything but you, and it's directed at you very specifically for things I can very very easily blame on you. You, on the other hand, have spent the last two pages insulting an entire nation of people (or, at the very very least, those of us from that nation that also happen to read Dumpshock), and you're hating on that group of people for things not every individual in that group of people is responsible for. You're lumping people together, blaming the many for the supposed sins of the few, and calling it a day. That's the difference between us. That's also the difference between two guys getting a brawl, and one religion or nationality declaring a no-quarter war on another. My flavor of hatred ends, at most, with a murder. Your brand can end in race wars. So fuck off. Or at least realize what a hypocritical fuckstick you're being, by even daring to post on a thread that's supposed to be mourning London's dead. |
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Jul 8 2005, 11:03 AM
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#66
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
If I had meant all Americans, I would have said "you yanks" or something to that effect. You see, there're specific words for that, and if I mean to insult someone or a group, I don't leave that open to interpretation.
Here, I meant all the people who replied in a form such as you did (as well as those who think soldiers gunning down civilians is acceptable social Darwinism). Just try to spin it like I meant all Americans. Won't make you look any less like an idiot. Also, read my above reply. |
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Jul 8 2005, 11:06 AM
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#67
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Bullshit. You're starting posts with "Dear Americans" (which, well, in case you don't know means very specifically you're talking to all Americans), you're insulting the leader of our nation ("egomaniacal"), you're pointing to our response as a nation as what not to do to react to terrorism, you're claiming our nation is only "bragging" about beleiving in freedom, you're claiming we've (as a country) turned our backs on liberty and the rest of our values, and blah blah blah and on and on.
You're generalizing all Americans. You're insulting us in ways you probably can't even comprehend. Don't try to fucking backpedal once you get called on it. Just shut the fuck up. |
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Jul 8 2005, 11:14 AM
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#68
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Eh ... I told the "dear Americans" to get a grip and stop jumping up in terror because of every bomb that went off. And yes, you did turn your back to the values your government claims to protect. Gitmo and other things are well known.
If you think the best response to terror attacks is to spread terror of your own (and by this, I meant you personally, Critas), you're welcome to try. You'll fail too. It's painfully obvious to anyone who choses to check history. And for the record, I said "the US", which refers to the state as an entity, not "Americans" or "you yanks", which would refer to the people. Well, that concludes what I have to say. Happy justifying murder here, Critas and shadowdragon and all you others. :) |
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Jul 8 2005, 11:21 AM
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#69
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318 |
Um.. Could you guys consider cooling it off?
Or atleast take it to nasty personal mails. I'm sure not many of us enjoy this kind of debate. And, there is a big difference between standing at a clearly visible and defined checkpoint, with published rules for passing (like not running toward, and stopping when adressed etc.), and shooting a person who is running toward you, or driving swiftly, clearly with the intent of passing the checkpoint unaccosted. Than shooting civilians indiscriminately. So, you both picked the worst version of what the other said, and went straight into the flamefest. Just walk away for a few hours and let this thread die. |
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Jul 8 2005, 11:21 AM
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#70
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
If you can't see that it's insulting to talk to all Americans like that, claim we're all reacting in terror the same way, and claim that we, as a nation, have turned our backs on the values most countries will never know in the first place -- then there's just something wrong with you. If you genuinely think because you were talking about us as a nation rather than to us as specific individuals, there's no way your words could be seen as negative and insulting, you obvious have no pride on your home, have never signed paperwork to enlist and protect and defend it, and -- again -- have something missing inside you to the point you can't relate to the feelings and pride of others.
And, secondarily, I guess you've got me mistaken for someone else. These last few posts have been my first contributions to this thread. All I've done is point out how insulting you're being, state clearly that it's out of place for this thread, and tell you to shut the fuck up. It's the only part of the conversation I'm concerned with, really. It's all I've said, and all I plan on saying -- the entire thread is off topic, but was allowed to stay out of respect (I'm assuming) for the dead in London. The thread was then turned into something else entirely, and you're primarily at fault for the argumentative and insulting turn that it took. As such, I'm holding you, personally, responsible for turning something kind and respectful into a shitfest. It's all I've said on this thread. I haven't taken part in the conversation before this, and likely won't after this. But there you go, lumping everyone together again. Keep that up. It never causes any sort of mistakes to be made, any innocents to be punished for the sins of the few, or any personal grudges to grow into anything larger. |
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Jul 8 2005, 11:30 AM
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#71
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Again, talking about the state as an entity and about the people is a differnet thing (as in "Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran" and "the Iraqi people/Iraqis used chemical weapons against Iran", or "Spain betrayed the US by pulling out of Iraq" and "the Spanish betrayed the US"). It's done all the time, in this thread too. I can't see why 'Spain' as a state may be attacked, but the United States as a state cannot. You may feel proud for the state, but you know what? That's not obligatory for everyone. And that doesn't make everything the state does right.
You've got every right to defend that state, but not with knee-jerk reflexes of calling everyone who calls the state USA on it's mistakes on hating the American people. That's just stupid. And you were right, in that case I did lumb you together with them in that last comment. My apologies. On a side note (relevant to the topic), 50 dead and 700 wounded. This is closing in on Madrid. :( And some copycat bomb threats are being made now. Some people really do anything to gain media attention, like that's fun or something. Morons. |
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Jul 8 2005, 12:15 PM
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#72
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Target Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 22-March 05 Member No.: 7,214 |
I believe this thread was originally started to pass condolances to the people that were affected by the bombings in London. I'm from New Zealand, and believe it or not, we to were shocked to hear of this tragedy. Our hearts always go out to the loss of life. It saddens me on a personal level to see any form of attack anywhere, regardless of the intention. Sure, the perpertrators deserve to be punished for their actions, thats the "just" thing to do. I just hope that something peaceful can be sorted from something so bad. 9/11, Bali,Madrid,7/7/05, anywhere the loss of life has gone unanswered, my heart goes out the the people left behind, for its them that have to pick up the pieces...
Sympathies From New Zealand |
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Jul 8 2005, 12:38 PM
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#73
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
looks like yet another thread where the diffrence between european and american values shine/burn (take your pick depending on how you want to react).
bad comments have been made by boths sides in this thread, and i a way this is exactly what the terrorists wants. instead of putting up a common front one starts to argue among eachother about the right way to react. |
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Jul 8 2005, 12:51 PM
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#74
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Nah. Seems more like bickering by a couple of self-important users who found something convenient to fight over.
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Jul 8 2005, 12:58 PM
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#75
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Sod this. Someone get this thread locked down and just let it die would they?
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