Mnemonic enhancer, Free skills? |
Mnemonic enhancer, Free skills? |
Jul 15 2005, 12:40 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 354 Joined: 11-April 05 From: 123 Anytown, USA Member No.: 7,316 |
If one were to take Mnemonic enhancer, which reduces the cost of learning/improving skills by one point of karma, would that in effect give the character a "jack of all trades" ability? Perhaps not actually gaining all skills, but effectively giving them the ability to roll one die without defaulting on any skill.
Sort of like the cantrips from MitS. You can get free, low level spells by making them exclusive or fetished. Why not do the same thing for skills? |
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Jul 15 2005, 01:03 PM
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#2
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
No, it doesn't. |
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Jul 15 2005, 01:25 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 354 Joined: 11-April 05 From: 123 Anytown, USA Member No.: 7,316 |
Way to let a guy down easy toturi. :(
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Jul 15 2005, 01:37 PM
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#4
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Hey, I do have a rep as an insane bookninja to maintain. :D
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Jul 15 2005, 01:52 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 25-March 05 Member No.: 7,235 |
It's still a great deal though.
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Jul 15 2005, 02:07 PM
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#6
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
now here's the fun part. Become an initiate, do an astral quest rating 2 (pretty much idiot proof) to learn a spell. Learn a force 6 spell for 1 karma. And get two more dice to do it with!
Is it cheap? yes . Is it legal? yes Should it be allowed? debateable, but it doens't say anywhere that they're not compatible. Then get the cognition metamagic too and knock off another one. |
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Jul 15 2005, 02:39 PM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
How exactly are you paying half karma for spells in the first place? Spells aren't skills, and the mnemonic enhancer only saves one karma on skills. Congnition similarly only applies to skills, but can stack with the mnemonic enhancer.
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Jul 15 2005, 02:59 PM
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#8
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
you're right , sorry, figuring in house rules again.
To us it just made sense that if you could use it for skills, it would work for learning spells as well since a good chunk of it is retention , at least w/ hermatics. YMMV |
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Jul 15 2005, 03:30 PM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Ah, that makes more sense.
Do you still use the TN F*2 test to actually learn the spell, or has that been made easier too? |
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Jul 15 2005, 03:34 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
1 karma per level on skills for the mnemonic enhancer.. level 3 mnemonic enhancers reduce the karma cost by 3, along with all the other bonuses. |
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Jul 15 2005, 03:35 PM
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#11
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
No, it's been errata'd to only provide 1 karma cost reduction regardless of grade.
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Jul 15 2005, 03:33 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Ah, my bad.
*makes a note to argue his GM out of following that particular Errata if he ever plays the character with it* |
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Jul 15 2005, 04:14 PM
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#13
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
I once had a player who had a human sammie with mnemonic enhancer (3) before the errate came out. It's not nice.. after a couple of runs he was a jack-of-all-trades (had started out with good attributes though). The reduction to only 1 karma point reduction makes sense imo.
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Jul 15 2005, 05:36 PM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
The level 3 version is still very useful. You get an extra die to all your knowledge skills, and 3 extra to all your language skills. An int 6 character can effectively have 4s in 9 languages, or 5s in 4 languages, providing significant fluency in multiple environments.
Definately beats out knowsofts and linguasofts in my opinion if you aren't playing the int 1 troll (who needs the chips to speak clearly in complete sentences). |
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Jul 15 2005, 05:50 PM
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#15
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
oh we most defintely do. I had one player that was all happy "I saved up and took manabolt at force 20!" "really? and you rolled a 40 to learn it when?" "huh? 40?" I'm not looking for a way to completely gimp the system here. It just made sense. Besides, astral quests to reduce the karma cost of learning a spell is already pretty damn easy, especially for shamans, since (unless I 'm remembering wrong) hermetics need to quest to all 4 elemental planes. Realistically, on an astral quest, a 5 is pretty damn easy to roll too as long as you have a good spread of skills. So it's not like getting dirt cheap spells isn't already written in. This way, they at least have to lower their magic rating, or take a geas to do it do to the 'ware. |
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Jul 15 2005, 05:59 PM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Shamans need to go to their totem plane, same with voodoo. Hermetics and wujen go to whatever plane corresponds to the spell (hermetic goes to earth to learn armor, don't remember if it's the same for wujen). It's only for the initiatory astral quest that hermetics and wujen get the metaphysical boot to the teeth.
I was mainly asking because the extra dice from the astral quests are at least as important as the karma reduction when trying to learn a spell. |
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Jul 15 2005, 08:40 PM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
Combat - Plane of Fire Detection - Plane of Air Manipulation - Plane of Earth Illusion - Plane of Water I can't remember what they do to quest for Health spells. Are you not allowed to quest for Health spells? |
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Jul 15 2005, 08:57 PM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Hermetics can't quest for health spells, no corresponding plane. They also can't use an elemental to aid study for health spells for the same reason.
Since it isn't earth for manipulations for wujen, I will amend my parenthetical comment with this brief list. Wood - Detection Fire - Combat Earth - Health Metal - Manipulation (and Sylphs) Water - Illusion So wujen get it slightly worse when astrally questing for as an aid to initiation, but at least they can learn Heal with extra dice. |
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Jul 15 2005, 10:10 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 354 Joined: 11-April 05 From: 123 Anytown, USA Member No.: 7,316 |
MitS pg. 94
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Jul 15 2005, 10:41 PM
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#20
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Hmm... missed that line. And that was one of my prime reasons for preferring wujen over hermetics.
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Jul 15 2005, 10:44 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 266 Joined: 16-April 02 From: DC Member No.: 2,605 |
I assume, with the errata, the -1 karma cost for skills is at any level. Is this how everyone plays? It seams like a very powerful piece of bioware for .2 BioIndex and :nuyen: 15,000. Does anyone else house-rule this for level 2 or 3?
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Jul 15 2005, 10:45 PM
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#22
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
mnem enh 3 is almost as good as that language-learnin' adept power (can't think of the name). together, they are horriffic. any language you are exposed to for more than an hour or so, you learn (for free!) at an effective rating of 4.
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Jul 16 2005, 01:10 AM
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#23
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Linguistics allows you to pick up the basics of the language at rating one, not sure where you're getting rating four from, in about four/five hours for no karma and reduces the time to learn it when improving your skill rating after that. You'd have to also take the Cognition metamagic to get near the bonuses of a level three mnemonic enhancer IMO.
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Jul 16 2005, 01:34 AM
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#24
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Flak, level 3 Mnem Enhancer gives 3 bonus dice to Knowledge and Language Skill Tests, in addition to other things.
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Jul 16 2005, 02:10 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 354 Joined: 11-April 05 From: 123 Anytown, USA Member No.: 7,316 |
Where do you find the'cognition' metamagic technique? I've not heard of it.
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