 shadows of asia |
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  Jul 25 2005, 05:13 PM
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#26
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 18-July 05 Member No.: 7,504  |
I to would like to see something, but can wait. The book is done and it is in the hands of shipping.
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Jul 28 2005, 03:00 AM
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#27
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
you mean "If a tree falls on darryl, does he make a noise?" |
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Jul 28 2005, 06:28 PM
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#28
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
So any movement on this in regards to the .pdf version? Or has the more urgent GenCon mad crush work forced it to the back of the queue?
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Jul 28 2005, 08:10 PM
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#29
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
I think it's safe to say that you shouldn't hold your breath |
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Jul 28 2005, 08:22 PM
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#30
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Since Sunday, I have worked *eyes time sheet* 77 hours for FanPro. None of those 77 have been the 2 that I need to spend on Shadows of Asia.
My apologies. Occasionally, we make promises that, for reasons unforseen at the time, do not come true. These are, contrary to what some believe, not "lies", merely "mistakes." Again, my apologies. |
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Jul 28 2005, 08:36 PM
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#31
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Or you could not make the promise in the first place.
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Jul 28 2005, 09:02 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 17-April 05 Member No.: 7,341 |
Don't apologize, and carry on the work. I find it quiet good to know that at least some people are working so in the end we can enjoy the products...
From one hardworker to another one, hold on, Adam |
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Jul 28 2005, 09:58 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Fan Pro makes "mistakes" regarding release dates 3 times out of four.
Here's a suggestion - if Fan Pro estimates that it will take six months before a book is completed, give a release date nine months in the future. No one will complain if the book comes out early. |
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Jul 28 2005, 11:22 PM
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#34
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Oh hey, I know how much you're being snowed under with more important priority work in the pre-GC runup so no need to go apologising. Major work finishing off books still in production for the deadline and the like beat out transfering something that's already been completed to .pdf any day of the week. It was more general curiosity than a where the hell's my book post. :)
In this place? I'm sure a couple people could be found to bitch and moan about it. ;) |
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Jul 29 2005, 12:34 AM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Well, yes, Flakjacket, but those people would obviously be crazy, where I have righteousness and the One True God on my side :spin:
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Jul 29 2005, 01:53 AM
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#36
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
There's a pattern here. They set a date, I predict they will miss it. Guys couldn't you arrange for me to be wrong once? I mean in a few weeks 4th ed comes out and you still havn't got out the SB that is uspposed to close 3rd ed. If 4th ed comeso ut first, will they even bother with the closer on 3rd ed? |
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Jul 29 2005, 02:53 AM
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#37
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Of course.
Just because it'll be available at Gencon (or one hopes, anyway) doesn't necessarily mean it will be available to everyone else. |
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Jul 29 2005, 03:37 AM
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#38
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I can wait as long as it's quality. But I think we should start a pool for when it actually comes out. Everyone put in a dollar, and for the winner (and the two closest) the funds go to purchasing them a SR4 BBB and SoA, or if they don't like 4th, get them some old SR3's to help them stand the test of time!
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Jul 29 2005, 05:26 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
I don't mind the wait; I mind that the official release dates are about as real as the White Rabbit.
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Jul 29 2005, 05:34 AM
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#40
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Just think of them the same way, as a happy little flight of fancy.
"Good things come to those who wait " should be Fanpro's modo |
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Jul 29 2005, 07:26 AM
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#41
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Not only FanPro, but most of the gaming companies.
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Jul 29 2005, 02:04 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 296 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Usually under a cat Member No.: 864 |
Not only the gaming companies, but most of the computer software companies out there too.
I mean, sheesh, if Microsoft, with thousands of people working thousands of person-hours on a project, can't hit their dates (and in some cases miss them by years), why is it so hard to swallow that one full-time employee, one equally hardworking part-time employee, and a bunch of freelancers miss dates by a month or two? Every single software company I've ever worked for (everything from startups to Giant Faceless Corporations ™) makes projections with a high degree of optimism and then almost always misses them. Sometimes by a few days, sometimes by months. It's just the nature of the game when you're dealing with variables like human beings. If they make the predictions pessimistic and come in early, everybody (especially the folks with the pursestrings) will just expect them to make the earlier schedule the next time. That too is the nature of the game. Everybody wants the most bang for the least buck in the least time. I for one would rather have SR4 make it for Gen Con and wait a couple extra weeks for SoA, but that's just me. |
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Jul 29 2005, 02:39 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 17-April 05 Member No.: 7,341 |
Fair enough. I agree with that.
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Jul 29 2005, 03:08 PM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
I could care less about who else is incompetent, and so should Fan Pro. Fan Pro should hit their dates.
A deadline is a deadline. If you can't hit them, get into another line of work. It reminds me of potheads I know who think it's totally unreasonable that they have to be at work at 9:00 AM every day, and what's the difference if they show up at quarter to ten? It's especially ridiculous when Fan Pro itself created the deadline. After all this time, they should know how long a book takes, and set a release date that bears some resemblance to reality. Fan Pro company men often say, "Well, we're working with writers, so that's why we're late." If the writers you hired can't hit a deadline, fire them. They're incompetent. I'm especially thrilled with Adam's recent post in this thread that says, "What's in it for me?" The situation, it seems, is that while long-time hardcores like me stand here with our money in our hands, Adam just cannot find the two hours he needs to put up the PDF that I am eager to pay for. This pre-4th ed. fiasco is a perfect example of how the release process is utterly FUBAR. Fan Pro announces 4th ed., then announces that LA, SoA, SoLA, and SF will all come out in the five or six months previous. This is in utter disregard for the fact that in the past Fan Pro was lucky to put out two or three books a year, and can't hit a release date with a flamethrower. It's also in total disregard for the fact that, quite naturally, the final work on 4th ed. is sucking up resources like a black hole; Apparently, nobody at Fan Pro included that in their calculations. And what's the result? LA is only now going on shelves, if it has at all. SoA is in shipping limbo and the PDF is like the Loch Ness Monster. SoLA has gone completely off the tracks in some mysterious way for some reason Fox Mulder might be able to make some sense out of, and it's a matter of faith that SF will appear in time. My point is, why does Fan Pro announce release dates that they know, or should know, are total nonsense? |
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Jul 29 2005, 03:19 PM
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#45
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Shooting Target Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
It's fairly simple, really. Take a look at how the publishing distribution chain works. (Diamond, Alliance, Ingram, etc.) If you solicit a book and you're late, the distributors will buy it from you, then mail it out to stores. Better yet, because its late, there are actually a decent number of orders in place from retailers already. If you finish a book early, they don't want it. They don't have warehousing space or budget allocated for it, or sales in place yet. It's an industry that penalizes people who work ahead of schedule, but has no extra incentives for being on schedule. Given those conditions, why be on time? |
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Jul 29 2005, 03:25 PM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 11-April 05 From: San Antonio, USA Member No.: 7,317 |
Just curious Zenshooter, but have you ever worked in RPG industry? I for one, have not, so I don't know what is going on behind the scenes that are making these books be released late. Writers could quit, the editing took longer than expected, they didn't like how the draft was and asked for a rewrite. The printers messed up the book and it has to done again. RL rears it ugly head and causes unforeseen complications. There is so many variables for one full-time employee( who is managing more than one game line) and some part timers who have other things going. You can fire them, but who are you going to replace them with? Writers, editors, and artists who are willing to work long hours for chump change don't grow on trees. At least they didn't last time I checked.
FYI, I'm kinda angry about SOA and SOLA, but I can wait for them. I would of gotten the pdf if it was released 2 weeks ago, but that is how the breaks go. |
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 Jul 29 2005, 03:30 PM
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#47
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Target Group: Members Posts: 91 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Bunker Gate 7 [CaTCo Compound] Member No.: 4,248 |
Hey Dun... You're right... It's how it work.
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Jul 29 2005, 03:55 PM
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#48
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
For the record, and since I bear some of the responsability here, SOLA delays have nothing to do with SR4 or any of the other upcoming books.
Things are not as black and white as some people would have it, FanPro made a development choice with the Shadows of of using local writers when possible to better ground and convey the local atmosphere (a decision I applaud and worked very well IMHO on SoE). With SoLA, like SoE, this meant working with a lot of first time writers who aren't professional writers and don't possess English as a first language. Many were unaware of how demanding working under deadlines was and slipped on delivery dates. Furthermore, writers with a little more experience, like myself, slipped too. This was compounded by unexpected (and expected) difficulties in development and editing, which pushed it sufficiently back that layout and editing would have impinged on other projects that were on schedule. A decision was reached to postpone the book but plans are in motion to get SoLA out to the fans some time in the not too distant future - but necessarily after SR4. |
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Jul 29 2005, 04:01 PM
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#49
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
That is, unfortunately, the case -- and I've apologized, and it was sincere. Here's the situation: I had done most of the work on finishing up Shadows of Asia for PDF [The print release is done and somewhere in the shipping process -- I had nothing to do with the print release.] At Origins, I was told by another company that I work for that someone was being pulled from a project, and I was needed to urgently fill in to get two books off to press for GenCon. I made the choice to delay my work on Shadows of Asia -- and I let Rob at FanPro know, and he understood -- to take on this important project. Once that project was wrapped up, I went back to work on an entirely different book for a third employer, as it needed to go to press in order to make GenCon, as well. By the time that was finished, the guy who was doing layout for Shadowrun Fourth Edition, unfortunately, had to leave on a vacation that he had planned months ago. I have spent every waking hour -- no exaggeration -- since then finishing Shadowrun Fourth Edition. I literally have not had the physical time to do so. Once that is finished and off to the printers [which will be today] I will, after a nap, return my attention to finishing up the Shadows of Asia PDF. I've done two weeks worth of work in the last 6 days, and while I don't give a shit if you have any sympathy or not -- I don't expect any -- understand that for the last month I have been busting my ass. I am sorry that I have not had time to finish Shadows of Asia, but next to "Finish Game of Thrones" and "Finish Shadowrun Fourth Edition" it's not something I've been able to make a priority. [Very late Edit: "I literally have not had the physical time to do so." refers to finishing the Shadows of Asia PDF.] |
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Jul 29 2005, 04:08 PM
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#50
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Wuffles Adam
People just get grumpy without their SR fix is all. :P |
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