 Cyberlimb Cyberdeck Question, All cheese, all the time |
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 Jul 22 2005, 02:08 PM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860  |
First, a non-cheesy question (just a dumb one) about cyberlimb cyberdecks: Do cyberlimb cyberdecks need a Router connection to a datajack be controlled by pure DNI?
(I'm guessing that since actual "cyberlimb direct neural interfaces" only apply to "devices not normally designed to be cybernetically controlled," a cyberdeck doesn't need an actual Direct Neural Interface.) Second, the cheesy question: Matrix describes cyberlimb cyberdecks as "normal cyberterminals that are installed in a cyberlimb. They follow all the rules for cyberdeck construction..." (pg65 Matrix). Okay. Does this mean that a cyberlimb cyberdeck could use its FUPs to carry gear like a GPS, orientation system, cellphone, etc. without using additional ECUs or essence beyond that used by the cyberdeck? |
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Jul 22 2005, 02:48 PM
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#2
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I would say yes.
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Jul 22 2005, 02:52 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
To both questions? |
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Jul 22 2005, 04:47 PM
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#4
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
a datajack is itself a small router, (i think it have something like 3 ports, one going outside of the skull) so you dont need a extra router to hook up that cyberdeck unless the datajack have all its ports filled.
still, i kinda find the interconnectivity stuff a useless mess that adds complexity for no reason what so ever. that is unless the routers are there to perform some sort of data convertion so that normaly incompatible devices can speak together. but having to count all those ports and list what goes where is basicly useless. as for the second question, i would guess that fpu connected devices take up the space they would normaly take up if put inside a limb. if you can fit stuff to the cyberdeck without making it more bulky i would say that someone have broken the laws of physics :silly: |
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Jul 22 2005, 04:59 PM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
Wow, I hadn't even thought to use a router. My combat decker has a cyber lower left leg, with his deck installed internally, and he just plugs from the leg to his head. A router would eliminate the need for anything to connect to the jack in his head. Just plug into the port in his leg, switch the router to "deck" and go to town.
Would that also mean I can use the cell phone, radio, etc., that are attached to the cyber deck with nothing but a transducer? |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:01 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Or the cyberdeck's case had spare room. I know when I add a new sound board or video card to my desktop, it doesn't grow. (Well, the speakers add space, but the addition of the sound card itself doesn't make the computer larger). The PCMCIA expansion slots on my laptop also accept computer expansions that (generally) don't increase the size of the computer. (My WiFi card does have an antenna poking out, but a lot of expansion cards wouldn't affect the size of the laptop.) |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:04 PM
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#7
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hell if i know, but i would allow it in my games.
to get this setup working you would have to dni the limb, hook the cyberdeck into the dni, the dni to the router and then the transducer to the router. this is if the gm allows the char to access stuff connected to the deck as if the deck was a router. if not then you would have to dni all the items and hook them up to the dni of the limb as well as the deck so that when your not using the deck you access the equipment thru the dni of the limb directly... |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:06 PM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
An internal cyberdeck would be closer to a laptop than a desktop system. It will be design to be as small as possible to limit the essence loss and more easily fit in somebody's body. There ain't no way its going to have spare room for much of anything, certainly nothing of substance.
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Jul 22 2005, 05:08 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Why do you have to DNI the cyberdeck? It's (almost by definition) already meant to be cybernetically controlled. DNI, per pg303 of SR3, "allows cybernetic control of any device not originally designed to be cybernetically controlled that is placed in a cyberlimb." I'm also not clear on the role of the transducer in your set-up, which I haven't seen used to control a cyberlimb device before.
That sounds reasonable. Where's that in the rules? Matrix only says, "Cyberlimb cyberterminals are normal cyberterminals that are installed in a limb." It doesn't mention them shrinking. |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:10 PM
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#10
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
err cray74, the fup's are basicly the same as a usb or firewire port on a normal computer. so basicly your taking a normal handheld phone or radio and hook it up to the deck...
and yes both pcmcia and pci cards do not bulk the computer, but then the computer is allready made bulky to hold said items. and there is a limited number of slots that way :P alltho i allso think there is a limited number of fup's. to bad they never included the ability to hub said ports the way you can with usb ports (firewire can be chained, btw)... |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:14 PM
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#11
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
the dni is for the limb, not the deck. reread by text :P basicly the dni for the limb is a bit like a datajack inside the limb ;) then the deck hooks into this dni so that one can control it. (only problem with this logic is that you dont have to dni a phone to use it with a datajack but you have to do so to use it inside a cyberlimb... the transducer is for speaking thru the phone, radio or similar without having to subvocalise the words. no lip movement, nothing. just think what your saying and presto. having it hooked into a router allows it to work with anything else thats hooked into the router ;) |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:16 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Sure. Show me the page that says that. FUPs, as written in Matrix, are rather indistinct critters. When I add a screen and keyboard to a cyberdeck's FUPs, as far as the rules are concerned, I could've just made a laptop - not build a desktop with the screen and keyboard sitting nearby.
3xMPCP (MPCP base, add up to twice more.) |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:19 PM
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#13
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
if you look up the description of a normal cyberdeck you will find that its about the size of a real life keyboard. now strip away said keyboard and case and stack the remaining bits inside a cyberlimb... if you want a desktop computer sized cyberterm it would be breadboarding (matrix), this even allows you to upgrade some parts of the term/deck one point on some of the stats. this however cant be fitted inside a cyberlimb :P and i belive a joke in vr2 about cranial decks was that you could do it but you could never find a big enough hat to hide the equipment :P so basicly, a cyberterm or cyberdeck is a laptop without the screen, cooling fans and a super-small&strong battery ;) (or every jackpoint is fitted alongside a power outlet) |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:21 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
I'll quote the whole entry for you:
The cyberdeck is already designed for cybernetic control. Therefore, it does not need DNI. |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:27 PM
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#15
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
its never realy spelled out in the matrix book but i talked to the person that worked on said text and he said he had the usb system in mind while writing that part of the chapter. and a lot of people today create transportable desktops by putting a motherboard and a lcd into a suitcase :P |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:32 PM
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#16
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
and i point you to page 38 and 39 of mand and machine. there you will find the description of direct neural interface and the cost. notice that in the table you have a implant that costs .1 essence, and below it a dni adaption option. its the top entry of those two that im talking about. if not you will have to run a wire from the limb to a datajack on the outside of the body. |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:32 PM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Right. If you strip out the keyboard, you leave a pretty small volume that includes the FUP expansion slots. The wonders of mid-21st miniaturization, neh? I mean, if you also cut out the FUPs, the cyberdeck fits into a tiny package that can handle a soaking, salty, hot environment for only a 20% mark-up (cranial cyberdecks). |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:37 PM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Cool, thanks. That even spells out cyberdecks requiring DNI when in limbs. |
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Jul 22 2005, 05:50 PM
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#19
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
rember that a cyberlimb is basicly a hollow limb. if you remove the meat of a limb and replace the bones with titanium or aliminium rods you can free up a lot of room. in fact you can build the limb like the shell of a insect. interconnecting plates or nets of metal. that should realy free up space.
but if you remove the skull around the brain you dont free up even close to the same space. atleast not if you want to stay close to the same headsize :P |
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Jul 22 2005, 06:00 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
That was my point - the core elements of a cyberdeck (i.e., minus the FUPs) can be very small. It's also a great argument for PocketDecks, but that's another thread. |
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Jul 22 2005, 06:10 PM
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#21
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
IMO, anyone with a cyberdeck in thier head would have a lot of stuff sticking out, and would probably not have hair. Also, the heat output would be a problem (doubly so from the stuff coming off the brain itself. And what happens when you run into Sparky ICE?
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Jul 22 2005, 06:15 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Why would the cranial cyberdeck cost someone their hair or cause a bunch of lumps to stick out? The CC doesn't have a concealability rating - there's no chance for someone to eyeball a skull and shout, "There's a cyberdeck in there!" Maybe with a cyber detection device, but not the mark I eyeball. As for heat, it's only 37C from the brain. That shouldn't bother electronics - my desktop's CPU runs in the 40s since I got a new cooler, and stayed around 52C with the old one. |
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Jul 22 2005, 06:36 PM
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#23
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
allso remeber that sr chips use light rather then electricity...
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