Cyberpunk / Shadowrun 'Lifepath' generator

Cyberpunk / Shadowrun 'Lifepath' generator

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Velocity

Jul 26 2005, 03:35 PM

Post #26

Moving Target

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QUOTE (hermit)

I'd have thought heterosexuals only engage with the opposite sex ... is this a glitch or intended?

Depends on how strictly you want to define "heterosexual," I suppose. Does one encounter in your youth define your sexual identity? If Ms. Vader identifies as heterosexual now, desires men and over the course of her life, 99% of her sexual activity has been with men, then I'd say she's straight--even if she once had a torrid homosexual experience.

hermit View Member Profile	Jul 26 2005, 03:36 PM Post #27
The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121	Well, if she ever had a desire fro her own sex, she's bisexual (just not very much) in my book. Sicne the generator produces a quite astonishing number of bisexuals (some 50% total), I took that as me and the generator agreeing on this. shrug

arcady

Jul 26 2005, 04:13 PM

Post #28

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There is a small chance that teens will 'experiment' (I think 1 in 10 or 1 in 30) - when they do they get a 50-50 odds on the sex of the relationship. An even greater one that children will get 'Crushes' tied to 'random chance' rather than sexuality.

Social science actually holds that a very large percentage of people experiement outside of their sexual identity at some point in their life. Its one of those 'Kinsey Report' kind of things - everyone denies its true but the studies say otherwise. Much like the now commonly accepted notion that more than just psycho killers and peple will hair palms engage in 'solo performances' - but at the time of his report, the idea that normal people 'did that' was considered so shocking as to be dangerous - enough so that they used to give 'female circumcisions' to girls caught doing it - and sometimes even hysterectomies (sp?).

Current odds on sexualities in the generator are:

CODE

function sexuality(species) {
if (species>5) {
species = chanceToWord(species, speciesList)
if(species=="Cybershell" || species=="Digital Mind") return 3; // none
}
sexPref = new Array(53,38,9); // hetro bi homo
return doWork(sexPref);
}

doWork is a function that adds all the numbers togethers and then makes the chance of any entry 'i' equal to i/total. In this case the total is a handy 100. (I need to edit that function for my newer method of finding asexual species).

Social theory holds it is actually between 12-het,80-bi,8-homo to possibly more in the last category along a bell curve that is then 'shifted' towards het by social pressures. We only have certain periods of classic Greece as an example of a counter-shift; were to have 'encounters' with women that were not purely for procreation was considered dirty, and only men were socially acceptable partners for amorous attentions. That is of course countered by at least one famous example in the Trojan war - although the idea that that was about romance is in some circles considered to be a 'post-greecian edit' with the real issue having been securing her marriage for political gain (certain rights of title that passed through women or something like that).

The idea here is that without social pressure people would just 'do whatever moves'. This is backed by looking at our closest 'living relatives' Bonobo Chimps - among whom bisexuality is the norm. They are also one of three species known to have sexualities rather than just mate for reproduction. The third is dolphins and I have no idea on their 'practices' save for the oddly humorous notion that they sometimes get confused over humans in the water with them...

I figured that given today's current changes in perceptions over 'non traditional lifestyles' the hetro-shifting weight from social pressure would lesson, albeit not disapear. That would result in more people identifying in ways they might not have done beforehand, and a great many acting on it.

True to 'Cyberpunk' and its theme of 'alienationg confusion in society' this just results in a jumbled mess over the whole issue as old and new clash and don't know where to go. If the results of the generator were 'comfortable' to modern people it wouldn't be Cyberpunk. :cyber:

The balding for women is very low on the odds, but in any random generator from time to time the same thing will get rolled multiple times.

I can think of one game example where a player in a Mutants and Masterminds game rolled 3 or 4 20's in a row - as an example. All if I recall on unimportant task rolls, but it got all our attentions (and it was with my dice, on the table, with a trustworthy player so I know they weren't rigged - it was just "one of those things").

Odds for a bald woman - bald only shows up in the tables once for them. For men, it has a 30% chance if they are over 40 - but from there it can get tailed to 'shaved head', 'bald', or 'balding'. Whereas online research tells me that by 40 something like 53% of men are balding, and higher as you go up in age.

'X' was/is important showing a mysterious person is a persistant bug I've been working on.

Velocity View Member Profile	Jul 26 2005, 04:48 PM Post #29
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 26-July 03 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 5,029	Thanks for the breakdown of your methodology, that was extremely helpful.

arcady View Member Profile	Jul 26 2005, 05:04 PM Post #30
Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 21-July 05 From: San Francisco native Member No.: 7,511	For more hairstyles - got any suggestions. I typed in everything I could come up with. Here's the actual current listing: (subject to get added to as ideas hit me of course) // ----------------HAIR the natural colors of "Black","Brown","Red","Blond", and "Platinum blond" are hardcoded. &hairDyedColors=Blue,Green,White,Grey,Pink,Violet,Rainbow,Silver,Gold,Light Emitting,Purple,Orange,Glassy& &hairStyles=straight,curly,in an afro,dreadlocked,braided,frizzy,ratty,with a mohawk,wild,unkempt,greased back,in pigtails,ponytailed,clean cut,oily,over one eye,shaved on one side,spiked,wavy,prehensile,kinked,wavy,curly,straight& &hairLengths=long,short,medium length,waist length,very short,shoulder length& The hairlengths of "long","short","but bald" are then 'concat'ed onto the end of the above list (which makes long and short appear twice). Yeah... messy... Flash only imports straight text that it can assign to something, and then I have to tweak that something into actual useful data. Oh, I was reading my SR3 book last night to confirm a few things, and far as I saw, non humans are only 10% of the population. Is that right or was it only true at the beginning when 'globinization' first happened?

hermit

Jul 26 2005, 05:05 PM

Post #31

The King In Yellow

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QUOTE

The third is dolphins and I have no idea on their 'practices' save for the oddly humorous notion that they sometimes get confused over humans in the water with them...

Any hole, including the blowhole. Especially the latter. Popular among gay dolphins, apparently (read that recently in a science mag).

One more thing: can you add in more events, or would you rather finish the thing first?

arcady View Member Profile	Jul 26 2005, 05:22 PM Post #32
Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 21-July 05 From: San Francisco native Member No.: 7,511	Largely bug tweaking, but I add events as they occur to me. At present I'm working multi-genre events. The idea of placing flags for subgenre specific events is something slated for after some of the current problems clear up - like that 'Person X' bug. :) EDIT: Fairly confident I've knocked out the 'Person X' bug.

hermit

Jul 26 2005, 07:28 PM

Post #33

The King In Yellow

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Ok.

More bug reports:

QUOTE

16 Teen Pregnancy: it was the result of a rape. misscarried and misscarried

arcady View Member Profile	Jul 26 2005, 07:53 PM Post #34
Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 21-July 05 From: San Francisco native Member No.: 7,511	Other than repeating twice, that's about right. No names or bio info if the twins both miscarried. The output looks a little funky that way though.

hermit View Member Profile	Jul 26 2005, 07:56 PM Post #35
The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121	aaah, okay, I thought it just repeated. Twins. False alert. :)

arcady View Member Profile	Jul 26 2005, 11:46 PM Post #36
Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 21-July 05 From: San Francisco native Member No.: 7,511	I've added in the careers of 'Shaman' and 'Mage' but also set the populations such that 90% of all characters are humans - as per SR3 - the page that introduces Goblinization. The others are all 2% each for Elf, Dwarf, and Ork, 1.4% for Troll, and 0.8% for Ghoul and Shapeshifter. Subraces at present have a 1 in 5 chance of appearing if the race they come under pops up (save that all Shapeshifters are assigned a 'subrace' or animal form). So the chance of -as an example- a Satyr (Ork subrace) is only 0.4%. Maybe that will change with 4e, but at least under the 'priority' system of 1-3e I've never once seen a player pick a nonhuman, so it's not all that off. :P That still means that the subraces are 20 times more likely than a Native American in the USA of the real world today, and about 1-2% under the chance of an African American.

Ed Simons

Jul 27 2005, 03:47 AM

Post #37

Moving Target

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QUOTE (arcady)

I've added in the careers of 'Shaman' and 'Mage' but also set the populations such that 90% of all characters are humans - as per SR3 - the page that introduces Goblinization.

The others are all 2% each for Elf, Dwarf, and Ork, 1.4% for Troll, and 0.8% for Ghoul and Shapeshifter.

Actually, it was about 10% of the population became each of the different metahuman types, not only 10% of the total population.

Using SoTN and SoE, a spreadsheet (and too much free time), I came up with averages of:

Human 68%
Dwarf 6%
Elf 9%
Ork 11%
Troll 5%
Other 1%

Ed Simons

Jul 27 2005, 05:55 AM

Post #38

Moving Target

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QUOTE (arcady)

Social science actually holds that a very large percentage of people experiement outside of their sexual identity at some point in their life. Its one of those 'Kinsey Report' kind of things - everyone denies its true but the studies say otherwise.

Could you provide links to those studies please?

And Kinsey's study has IMO been justly criticized for it's sampling. When 5% of your sample are male prostitutes, that would rather skew the numbers. (Unless Kinsey is perhaps claiming that half of all admitted homosexuals are involved in prostitution.)

QUOTE (arcady)

Current odds on sexualities in the generator are:
sexPref = new Array(53,38,9); // hetro bi homo
return doWork(sexPref);

While it's probably hard to get accurate polling in this area, modern polls vary significantly - claiming anywhere from 1 to 10% of the population is homosexual. That variance seems to have a lot to do with the political views of the pollsters, with more neutral pollsters generally splitting the difference.

QUOTE (arcady)

Social theory holds it is actually between 12-het,80-bi,8-homo to possibly more in the last category along a bell curve that is then 'shifted' towards het by social pressures.

Again, I'd be interested in sources for this social theory and it's numerical breakdown. I'm also not seeing the general culture of Shadowrun as being highly supportive of alternate lifestyles, so your numbers seem to be rather high.

And speaking of alternate lifestyles, you don't seem to have androgynes and neuters, which are mentioned in the book.

hermit

Jul 27 2005, 12:55 PM

Post #39

The King In Yellow

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QUOTE

I'm also not seeing the general culture of Shadowrun as being highly supportive of alternate lifestyles, so your numbers seem to be rather high.

Then you might want to read the sex and relationship part of SSG (can't remember the chapter's title, sorry). At least in the NA countries, things seem to be pretty liberal. It's a tad different in parts of Europe (especially the south), and surely a lot different in most Asian countries (especially in the ME).

QUOTE

While it's probably hard to get accurate polling in this area, modern polls vary significantly - claiming anywhere from 1 to 10% of the population is homosexual. That variance seems to have a lot to do with the political views of the pollsters, with more neutral pollsters generally splitting the difference.

From the polls and studies I read, I took something along the lines of 10%. Of course, you get higher numbers if you lump everyone who is even remotely bi in.

Ed Simons

Jul 27 2005, 02:56 PM

Post #40

Moving Target

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QUOTE (hermit)

Then you might want to read the sex and relationship part of SSG (can't remember the chapter's title, sorry). At least in the NA countries, things seem to be pretty liberal. It's a tad different in parts of Europe (especially the south), and surely a lot different in most Asian countries (especially in the ME).

I have read that, after all I mentioned the lack of androgynes and neuters in the program. Certainly, the 6th world is more accepting of alternate lifestyles than today, but there are also groups opposed to it. It complete undercuts the idea that alternate lifestyles are in any way oppressed or discriminated against (as is suggested in that same section) if fully half the population is bi- or homosexual, and many of the 'heterosexuals' have experimented with homosexual relationships.

hermit

Jul 27 2005, 04:28 PM

Post #41

The King In Yellow

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QUOTE (Ed Simons @ Jul 27 2005, 04:56 PM)

QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 27 2005, 05:55 AM)

Then you might want to read the sex and relationship part of SSG (can't remember the chapter's title, sorry). At least in the NA countries, things seem to be pretty liberal. It's a tad different in parts of Europe (especially the south), and surely a lot different in most Asian countries (especially in the ME).

I have read that, after all I mentioned the lack of androgynes and neuters in the program. Certainly, the 6th world is more accepting of alternate lifestyles than today, but there are also groups opposed to it. It complete undercuts the idea that alternate lifestyles are in any way oppressed or discriminated against (as is suggested in that same section) if fully half the population is bi- or homosexual, and many of the 'heterosexuals' have experimented with homosexual relationships.

But then again, society as a whole DOES just not give a damn, doesn't it? At least that's how I took the SSG chapter in question (especially the 'what's not done' section, which pretty much said that the only widely acknowledged taboos are sex with minors and disabled/helpless and unconsenting sex). Even inter-species sex is discussed, though admittedly it will raise eyebrows (the example was something about Scralet O'Hara making out with a black woman, IIRC). Anyway, hate groups concentratre apparently more on inter-Metatype and inter-species sex than homo/bisexuals at the moment in the SR world.

And you do get transgenders. After about a gazillion attempts of generating a Shadowrun Star Athlete, I came across a transgendered Streetsam. They're just about as rare as they are in reality.

arcady View Member Profile	Jul 27 2005, 05:13 PM Post #42
Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 21-July 05 From: San Francisco native Member No.: 7,511	I noticed the racial demographics for Seattle last night and will be adjusting for them in the next update. I'm deep in the middle of a bug at present though, so it will happen a bit later in the day. I'm trying to add tracking of how many years ago a person who passed away died, and while I've got good numbers for parents - sometimes I get a sibling being born after both parents have died, or a contact / romance dying years before the character met them. :) Flash only lets you return one variable from a function, so I need to start returning longer arrays in places I was only returning strings or small arrays in order to do this. Not a hard bug to track out, just a time consumer to make sure I get every places I used the relevant functions. I'm not going to comment on this or that social study much further - the ideas and info come from my high school and primary school education - when the stats were even lower than they are today. At university, I've studied 'the politics of sexuality' but the focus there was a bit different - more on the lines of how we define normality and deviancy. I do recall that as of the late 90s somewhere the newspaper here was claiming SF had a gay population of about 35%, 2% higher than the caucasian population btw - just to give some perspective. Of course a lot of people move here for the fact that a lot of people like them are moving here... Asia is more liberal than the USA on these topics from my experience living there - more open for hetero's also (which includes myself although I do come from a lesbian household on 'one end of things'). Europe is famous in the imagination of Americans for its 'openess and diversity', though I have no idea how much truth there is to any of that. Oh, I've been out of the buying curve on Shadowrun since about 1999/2000. Man and Machine for 3E came out just before I stopped buying. I got a nasty munchkin player (accused me -as GM- of cheating for requiring him to add up his points correctly -he didn't deny they were off, he just insisted he was not required to- not use 2E gear, and then threatened two other players) and that killed my game, and then I got dragged into a d20 game (:eek:) Which books are SSC and SSG in their 'full not abreviated titles'?

hermit

Jul 27 2005, 05:43 PM

Post #43

The King In Yellow

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SSC - Street Samurai Catalogue

I was taling about SSG though - Sprawl Survival Guide - one of the better SR books after FanPro, after Loose Alliance propably my favourite. It deals mainly with how life works in the Sprawls of the 6th world, has rules on lifestyle customisation and IDs and such things. Pretty neat, if you ask me.

't was a typo. Sorry. Corrected. :)

Now that that's settled ...

QUOTE

I do recall that as of the late 90s somewhere the newspaper here was claiming SF had a gay population of about 35%, 2% higher than the caucasian population btw - just to give some perspective. Of course a lot of people move here for the fact that a lot of people like them are moving here...

Yeah. SF is a really special case. It's like saying 80% of Americans are Black to soem degree because you live in DC.

QUOTE

Asia is more liberal than the USA on these topics from my experience living there - more open for hetero's also (which includes myself although I do come from a lesbian household on 'one end of things').

Oh really? Well, you must have been to a different Asia than I. Then again, I guess you were neither referring to the PRC nor Malaysia, I take it? India is (somewhat) more liberal, yes, but I'd not call them 'tolerant' anyway. And I don't quite consider the subcontinent either, but that's just me.

QUOTE

Europe is famous in the imagination of Americans for its 'openess and diversity', though I have no idea how much truth there is to any of that.

Oh, we're a bit less stiff about many things, especialy compared to rural America. Not that that takes much, though.
European cities are relaxed about homosexuals, and overall, polls indicate the people have more important things to get upset about than, say, gay marriage (excluding Italy, Poland and the Balkans). Like, immigrants.

arcady View Member Profile	Jul 27 2005, 09:02 PM Post #44
Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 21-July 05 From: San Francisco native Member No.: 7,511	I -would- include China. Also most of south east Asia, Japan, and Korea. All countries with a -lot- of diversity in sexuality, a much greater acceptance that people will engage in sexual behaivoir, and a greater tolerance for what we in the USA refer to as sex crimes - such as prostitution, pedophilia, and so on. Maybe not in law, but its often openly out there. A roommate of mine who was a cop in Korea had his station across the street from a redlight district - and those sorts of disctricts can be found openly displayed next to many major transportation hubs. The first world Asian nations (Korean & Japan) are not tolerant of pedophiles, but if you spend much time in them or the others you will encounter camps full of western ex-pats who come there to 'indulge' in things they cannot do in Europe, the USA, and elsewhere. Can't say I have experience with Malaysia, but I do know prostitution is rampant in South Asia. Human trafficking marks all of these countries as both import and export locations for the slave market. non-hetero preferences are not discussed much in these places. They might be seen as wierd, but they are also not a part of the dialogue - and by not being 'defined' they largely go unpersecuted. As long as people 'do their family duty' they can then go about their preferences within the remainder of their time. And I am -NOT- using the San Francisco Bay Area as the example or basis of my logic about the present day. But it does make a good example of a metropolitan region that is inclusive in its diversity rather than exclusive like New York or LA (which have 'ethnic' regions). As time moves forward -places that do not make an issue over ethnic conflict will be more resembling of SF than NY or LA with regards to trends like intermarriage. If sexuality moves off the 'hotbutton' list and becomes more mainstream acceptable, it will follow the trends that race has. We can see this already in work in the acceptance of media like 'Will and Grace' and the ever growing presence of an acceptance of 'alternative lifestyles' in mainstream media. When I was just out of high school TV was taking flak over Murphy Brown - a woman who chose to have a child out of wedlock. Now, not that much later, we don't bat an eye over that topic and it becomes a joke on Friends and present in countless other media sources. As well, 'alternate sexuality' protagonists become more and more common with less and less dialague over their presence. So SF may not be a norm now, but it's attitude over the issue might well be in time. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Plus there is one other great value to this. To people stuck in 'old era thinking' the greater diversity in this thing helps to set up the alienation so needed to get across the Cyberpunk genre well. If the characters always seem 'just a little off' from normal, it helps make them 'disjoining' and thus more Cyberpunk.

hermit

Jul 27 2005, 09:17 PM

Post #45

The King In Yellow

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Arcady, we're talking past each other.

In many Asian nations, prostitution is not persecuted as harshly as in the US (in fact, save for Islamist states, noone does). But that doesn't nescessarily indicate tolerance, especially towards homosexuality, which is whatn I am talking about. It is more about a different appriach to morality. But it is being persecuted. The only countries where prostitution is (somewhat) legal are Western European states like Benelux and Germany.

QUOTE

Maybe not in law, but its often openly out there.

Eh ... ever been to Amersterdam? Doesn't get any more open than in Walletjes.

Also, prostitution being ramapant in many poor countries has a lot to do with poverty there. Selling your daughters to pimps is a valid way to make money there. Especialyl if they will cost you dearly anyway when they get married eventually. Oh, and that goes for thai and indian child prostitutes as well. It's mainly poverty and parental greed, not a more forgiving culture, that makes this possible. Though admittedly Thailan is very tolerant indeed, about on par with the Netherlands.

QUOTE

Can't say I have experience with Malaysia, but I do know prostitution is rampant in South Asia.

The former PM shot down his competitor because he was seen by a hooker. The man went to jail for years after that (solitary confinement, and Malaysia's jails make even US ones look nice in comparison).

QUOTE

non-hetero preferences are not discussed much in these places. They might be seen as wierd, but they are also not a part of the dialogue - and by not being 'defined' they largely go unpersecuted. As long as people 'do their family duty' they can then go about their preferences within the remainder of their time.

Being gay gets you reeducation camp in almost all Asian countries, excluding India (for religious reasons, they couldn't marry without their Hijras), Thailand, Japan and Korea. It's ignored if you have power and keep a low profile, but that's not tolerance, that'S more a culture of looking the other way.

QUOTE

If sexuality moves off the 'hotbutton' list and becomes more mainstream acceptable, it will follow the trends that race has. We can see this already in work in the acceptance of media like 'Will and Grace' and the ever growing presence of an acceptance of 'alternative lifestyles' in mainstream media. When I was just out of high school TV was taking flak over Murphy Brown - a woman who chose to have a child out of wedlock. Now, not that much later, we don't bat an eye over that topic and it becomes a joke on Friends and present in countless other media sources. As well, 'alternate sexuality' protagonists become more and more common with less and less dialague over their presence.

Hopefully. It's a trend, but I'm not convinced it will hold.

arcady View Member Profile	Jul 29 2005, 07:25 AM Post #46
Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 21-July 05 From: San Francisco native Member No.: 7,511	Just did an upload that includes a basic listing of Cyberware (the list from Ex Machina, with a few add ins from Shadowrun that didn't have equivalents). This thing is now -real close- to an official 1.0 version. I just need to give it a day to uncover bugs... I've got a list of ideas for a later version, but the core of what it -needs- is there now. It will need a basic glossary before release though, to define some of the terms that are not constant across game systems. For example SIN in Ex Machina refers to 'Sensory Interface' as in the ability to record feelings and sensations, I think the same letters in Shadowrun refer to your government ID number, and they call the sensory thing a 'Simrig'. There are other terminology issues as well, and I'll have to think about where I can fit the glossary for it all. I've also extracted the chances for different sexualities, as that seems a hot topic for some odd reason. This way people who download it once 1.0 is up and set them as they like them.

hermit View Member Profile	Jul 29 2005, 12:18 PM Post #47
The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121	One more thing: could youn add a function that makes professions/careers selectable? Ah, and ... about the cyber ... can you set the cyber propability for a mage as low as possible? It happens that mages have to get cyber, but in Shadowrun, this SERIOUSLY messes with their ability to work magic. Also, tying cyber propabilities to career (or roots) would be nice. A delivery driver wouldn't need two cybered legs, a throat tentacle and other implant weapons ... a street warrior, on the other hand, might look odd without any cyber.

arcady View Member Profile	Jul 29 2005, 06:29 PM Post #48
Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 21-July 05 From: San Francisco native Member No.: 7,511	In the same directory as the lifepath's website, the data files are: DATA_names.txt DATA_facts.txt Before it goes live, I still need to add 'French personal names'. And I have one more planned change to the structure of the facts file. But I'm letting you see that here so you can see what events and such are possible at present and then make some suggestions for additions before I put up 'v1.0'.

hermit View Member Profile	Jul 30 2005, 12:33 AM Post #49
The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121	Damn, I urgently need to get my MrJLBB back (Mr. Johnson's little black book, a SR GM guide type book), it had a looong list of personality traits and quirks for NPCs as inspiration fro GMs, I'm sure you could use these. They were pretty egneric, so they would be of good use to the other systems as well. Oh, and I read a bit in your Spacepunk setting. Quite nice! Makes me wish I had a group to play a real CP game with again ... :)

arcady View Member Profile	Aug 1 2005, 12:05 AM Post #50
Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 21-July 05 From: San Francisco native Member No.: 7,511	An official downloadable version 1.0 is now here: http://www.geocities.com/arcady0/SciFi/lifepath.html The older copy on my other website has been removed for now. The above URL has both a zip download and an online usable version.

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