 Profesionalism, ...or lack thereof... |
 Aug 3 2005, 06:26 AM
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#1
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,458 Joined: 22-March 03 From: I am a figment of my own imagination. Member No.: 4,302  |
Ok, so the setup is timeless and simple. The runner are called to a meet at a family restaurant; a nice, neutral ground in a good, well patrolled neighborhood. Two runners of the five show up unarmed (ok, so one's a mage and the other and adept), the other three come packing heat. When the GM institutes a gun check (unlikely now, but this is the Sixth world), two of them flat out refuse to relinquish their weapons, one even goes so far as trying to intimidate the guy who is supposed to seat people. The third hands over her weapons and is allowed to enter unquestioned. The guy who tried intimidation (only to be asked to leave) proceeds to stand around outside expecting the meet to come to him, while the other just goes home.
What really gets me is the two gun bunnies have the nerve to call anyone who would go to a meet unarmed, or who would check their gun, unprofessional. This is the kind of thing that causes a Johnson to scrub entire runs, and ruins reputations. Am I the only one that watches this drek and wants to reach out and throttle someone? |
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Aug 3 2005, 06:53 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 6-March 03 Member No.: 4,211 |
Provided there is enough time before the meet the team could have checked the places security out a bit. I say if you can pack then do, if not, then leave it in the car and trust the adept and mage to bail you out of the fire if one starts.
Another option is weapons designed to get through MADs. As long as there isn't a physical pat down these tend to be easy to get inside. Also, bribing tends to work a hell of a lot better then intimidation. Point being there's a number of other ways the players could have handled this. Attempting to get a gun inside of a meet's half expected in my mind. I expect the J's bodyguards to be packing and plan to as well if at all possible. The approach the team gave it, especially the intimidation thing's just bad biz IMO and not the smartest RP either. One of those times I as a game master would wish the player had taken the common sense edge. |
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Aug 3 2005, 06:55 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UCAS Member No.: 1,015 |
Have another Johnson organize a meet in an empty parking lot in a "D" neighborhood where they can carry all the weapons they want. In fact, Mr. J should remind them to come ready to travel because if they take the job they'll be shipping out immediately.
When they get out in the parking lot they all get shot in the head by a team of snipers (one for each of them). Then "Mr. J" (who doesn't actually work for whatever corp or policlub he presented himself as being a representative of) has his goons raid their corpses before selling them to organleggers who are standing by. After this the knowledge should dawn on your players that if Mr. J wants their characters dead no amount of artillery will save them. |
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Aug 3 2005, 07:16 AM
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#4
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Holy Jesus.
Just bribe the guy for heaven's sake! Hell, one bribe and he'd prolly let them all get in with their toys. edit: If it helps, I just consider the bribe part of the "cover charge" to get in. |
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Aug 3 2005, 07:21 AM
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#5
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
A team should never all go into the meet, for those two reasons right there. THe majority should wait outside, wtih some sort of communication. Especially if it's an experienced team, as they've probably pissed people off in the past and made some enemies. Send in the mage and the face, and have the rest armed and outside in case things go bad.
It is expected that a couple of weapons are going to make it in. But etiqutte demands that it be subtle. Arguing with the doorman and Sizzler to be able to keep your Ares Predator III is jsut stupid and is going to get the Star called. They should be waiting outside watching for trouble, well armed in case they need to be, not because they feel vulnerable without their Ares Compensator down the front of their pants. |
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Aug 3 2005, 07:27 AM
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#6
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
:rotfl: |
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Aug 3 2005, 07:29 AM
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#7
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
The unfortunate part of the setup you illustrate is that if a team is properly paranoid, properly wise, and most of all, properly professional... it won't catch them. Why? 1) If the team has a mage, which they bloody well should, the mage runs out in Astral Projection to do a quick on-the-fly scouting, to see how many people the J has there already, if any, and what they're doing. Seeing 2-10 guys laying on rooftops, arms poised as if to cradle a rifle (assuming they fail to see the non-astrally present rifles) should raise alarm bells. 2) The team should show up early. Way early. Like 1-2 hours early. Why? To secure the meet zone and ensure it stays that way. Not only because the J might screw them, but to ensure a third party doesn't screw one or both of them. If the J gets popped by a third party, it reflects badly on the runners, their fixer, the J's bodyguards... basically everybody involved. If, in showing up early, the zone is compromised, you call the J and inform him, and give him an alternate spot to meet at. If he refuses, you call the entire thing off. If he threatens you, you ensure he never works in the shadows again - and usually, this is as simple as informing the community of shadowrunners that this guy's no good. A J with a blown rep is no good as a J to whatever corp or organization he works for, and if that's his specialty (or the run was especially important), you can be reasonably certain he's dogmeat. At best (for him), he gets transferred to another department with a stern reprimand not to compromise company interests. At worst, he gets a brand new flow-through ventilation system in his head because he's just eating resources for the corp or organization. It comes down to this - Shadowrunners are 9 out of 10 times the cheapest and most easily replaced portion of a run. Windows of opportunity, secret data, items, et cetera are all very hard to replace. Manpower isn't. Considering the amount of money, power, and political sway most Shadowrunner employers can toss around, it falls upon the runner to take every single precaution they can to ensure neither they nor their employer is unneccesarrily vulnerable during a meet. I think in the current game we've been screwed by a Johnson twice. Not ATTEMPTED, mind you, but actually screwed. Once was when we didn't check our sources well enough and didn't bank on the fact that our enemies might not know who they were hiring (during a portion of Brainscan), and once was when we realized what was going on halfway through a run. Because of earlier attempts at similar screwage, our team will not meet with a Johnson in any situation where we are unable to ascertain our own safety. If they don't like it, they can hire someone else. It's just that simple. And the one time we caught up to our Johnson after they'd screwed us? Well, lemmie quote the Punisher here, because it went somethink like something he said: "Most people involved in attempts to kill me die. Not you. You get a warning. Don't ever give me cause to visit you again. Like I say, I can get in anywhere. Nothing stops me. The latest idiots to try are vapor. Nine milimeters... I'm never further away than that." Because even if Mr. J works for Aztechnology... even if his orders to hire you come from Z-O itself... ultimately he will realize that as an employee, his personal life is far more expendible than his position, and his corporation will not spend a spectacular amount of money protecting that personal life when the money could be better put to use hiring another, less aware team. |
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Aug 3 2005, 07:55 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UCAS Member No.: 1,015 |
Obviously. However a team with those traits would already know that to a certain extent you have to trust the Johnson. A team with those traits certainly wouldn't be caught dead arguing with the door man at T. Phineas McPickleshitter's because he won't let them bring their guns in. They would realize when they heard the address of the meet that if anything goes down there will be cops all over it. |
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Aug 3 2005, 08:24 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 897 Joined: 26-February 02 From: TIME OUT Member No.: 1,989 |
i wouldn't go to a meet where they didn't take my weapons
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Aug 3 2005, 09:24 AM
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#10
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Such a team would not trust a Johnson. They would attempt to check up, cross-reference, doublecheck, re-check and do whatever it is necessary to secure and verify the trustworthiness of the Johnson. And still not trust him. Not bringing a weapon to the meet is unprofessional. Leaving a weapon at the door is par for the course. But it is unprofessional to meet with the Johnson unarmed (unless unarmed is the weapon). As a runner, the odds are against you, you do whatever necessary to improve those odds and even turn them around. If you do not, you are being unprofessional. Walking away from a meet is professional. A professional knows walking is better than dying. |
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Aug 3 2005, 09:51 AM
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#11
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I'll remember that if we ever switch roles Fyggy. :] |
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Aug 3 2005, 09:53 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 637 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,528 |
The classical tips for professionals:
+ You are worthless! If Mr. J wants you dead, he gives a gang a dozend Predators, a few hundret NuYen and points them in your general direction. He won't arrange a fake meeting + Mr. J is god! The Zeus/Odin/Ivanova type of GOD! So it's best not to piss him of. + Threatening Mr. J during the initial meet is pissing him of + Form follows function. Showing up at the Ritz-Carlton in Battledress, with an assault rifle on your shoulder, enough ammo to win DienBienPhu and wearing a combat pot with "Born to kill" scrawled on the cover is not professional. Neither is showing up to a meet in the Barrens in a 3-piece Armani Suit that costs more than the inhabitants of the block earn in a year. + There is such a thing as too much paranoia. That's the one that costs you the job + Huge Mowhawks, visible tatoos and other easily recognised characteristics are unprofessional unless produced for the run and discarded immediatly afterwards + Trolls with their unique arrangement of Horns and Plates are unprofessional + If you are a team, send one to negotiate. If you are not, don't negotiate as a team. + If you know shit about negotiations, use your Fixer. That's what he's getting payed for + Etiquette isn't nice to have, it's a must. + If in Japan, do as the Japanese! Adressing the Oyabun the same way you adress the Pizzaboy hurts + Stupid runners rest in pieces + Sometimes it's okay to put plastic explosivs in your teammates headsets. Birdy |
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Aug 3 2005, 10:36 AM
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#13
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Now, is that a near-quote from Fields of Fire, or is it a quote from a Cyberpunk 2020 book? I'm getting the inkling it's from one of the Chromebooks.
Generally, that is a trade my PCs have been willing to make. Of course, there are always those times when I'm playing someone that really needs the money.
Remind me to tell all of yas sometime about a PC in a game I ran who implanted a tazer in a fellow PC, hooked up to his heart, so that she could taze him with intensities varying from 'extremely unpleasant' to 'lethal', based on how poorly that PC behaved in polite company. |
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Aug 3 2005, 10:40 AM
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#14
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
sounds like Fields of Fire, although, like you said, not an exact quote. The gist of ... |
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Aug 3 2005, 10:49 AM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Gun-checks are one part of the reason almost all my characters - even the mages - have some form of unarmed combat or martial arts, usually rated at least 4. There are, of course, numerous other reasons, but gun-checks are a good one.
Actually I have five "must-have" skills that always go into a character - Firearms (since SR3 that's usually Pistols), Unarmed Combat/Martial Arts, Stealth, Athletics (Stupid Shadowrunner Deaths: drowning and falling off walls), Etiquette (varies depending on character background, usually Street or Magic) - but that's a whole other discussion :) |
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Aug 3 2005, 10:50 AM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
I recall something about a street sammie with "Eat My Snake" tattooed on his head who spent the meet ostentatiously cleaning his spurs... tell you, without a really compelling reason to stay, most of my characters would walk away from working with idiots like that as well... |
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Aug 3 2005, 11:01 AM
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#17
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I remember something about Argent saying that he hates guys like that. THen some one else came on "but Argent, aren't you a street samurai" "exactly" it's like Head & Shoulders meets SR.
Funny thing is, I've seen a player ACTUALLY DO THAT in a meet once. Needless to say, he didn't survive the run. With a little help (well, lack of needed help) from the rest of the team. |
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Aug 3 2005, 11:03 AM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
I'm rather getting a kick out of how much focus there is on these boards on "professionalism": yet how threads like this one demonstrate that we can't even agree upon whether or not professionalism lets (or demands) you carry pistols to a meet ... let alone what else is inherent to this one, "simple" concept.
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Aug 3 2005, 11:03 AM
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#19
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
If everyone's idea of professionalism was identical, we'd have no fodder for the stupid character death threads, would we?
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Aug 3 2005, 11:09 AM
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#20
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
that's because a lot of it differs from how each player interprets the game world. Some people wouldn't blink an eye at walking the streets of downtown wit han assult rifle on thier shoulder, where some would say that's suicide, and other jsut say it's a very bad idea. It's all left to tone. Personally I'm of the opinion that Johnson's would be dissapointed if a runner didn't manage to get some kind of weapon into a meet, but upset if they breached etiquette by making it obvious. Just like they know that his name isn't Mr johnson, and he's probably lying about half the stuff he tells them (again depending on the tone of your game), but won't bat an eye until they follow up on him with leg work later. Until Fanpro puts out "MJBB 2 - the Meet" with rules of etiquette for coming to a meet armed, it's going to be left up to each group exactly what flies at a meet and what doesn't (well, realistically, that wouldn't change anything anyways).
You can still be professional and die (although it's not as funny). For the really stupid, there's the C.L.U.E. Files. |
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Aug 3 2005, 11:39 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 637 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,528 |
The first quote his ripped from "Listen up you primitiv screwhead" (CP 2020 sourcebook, recommended for SR players) The last is from one of the "Dark Conspiracy" novels Birdy |
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Aug 3 2005, 12:30 PM
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#22
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
I've already exhausted the C.L.U.E. files. I need more! More stupidity, more deaths! :) |
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Aug 3 2005, 01:26 PM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Really? For me, this would be a point at which it'd dawn on me to go looking for a new GM and see how much of the group I could convince to go with me, because I don't put up with people wasting my time. |
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Aug 3 2005, 01:26 PM
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#24
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
In our group, we usually carry pistols to a meet. Any request to disarm is followed unless the weapon in question is undetectable by the means present / supposed to be present. What problem to I really need a pistol for that the mage can´t solve on his own? We tend to meet in places that provide their own security, and depend on guranteeing said security for all parties involved.
If that last condition is not met, everything goes. The choosen frontman will go in nearly unarmed, as a sign of trust, two others will provide armored and well armed protection, anyone left is part of Runner-FRT-alpha. The goal here is making safe elemination of our team in short order VERY hard. It is only professional to carry a gun if you might be going to need it. Then it becomes unprofessional not to do so. |
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Aug 3 2005, 01:51 PM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Yes, such is always needed. A while back, there was even an attempt at satisfying that need. Unfortunately, what little content it had is now gone. It had been here. Maybe you can find a working page archived somewhere. |
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