Good News, ...and some art. Options

[arcady]

Also, the B&W Ork... she doesn't look like an Ork, just like a heavy set human woman with plastic teeth for halloween...

There's nothing other than the teeth in the entire pictire that make her look at all like anything other than the average build for a 'gamer chic' with dreads...


And I do -not- want to know about the positioning of that Joystick on the dwarf. It definatley looks like a San Francisco in the 70s kind of thing... :eek:

[arcady]

[Ellery]

I don't care for the human. The artwork is of poor quality: the legs are misshapen and/or twisted, the navel is unanatomically low, the various body parts have thick lines that make them look pasted on (but not in such an obvious way as to constitute an obvious style), and the face looks two-dimensional, like a mask (but it is not clear that the person is wearing a mask--no shadows at the edges, for instance). There are also questionable aspects about what is depicted: even if the girl is going to a party, the sword is placed in such a way as to make it difficult to walk and impossible to sit down, and the dagger would poke her in her leg repeatedly as she tries to move. I assume from the platforms that she's going to a party--why do I want a picture of a runner who is going to a party?

The elf is pretty good. She's cute, has style, and is reasonably well drawn (aside from arms that are a little too long, and a lazy right eye). I'm not sure that the crossbow would be too comfortable to run with, but it's overall not bad.

The ork is so-so. The drawing quality is slightly better than the human but worse than the elf (somewhat inconsistent lighting direction, protruding teeth that look pasted on top of the face, absurdly narrow rifle handles, sunglasses with one arm that must be sticking directly into her head (or folded, in which case the glasses should fall off), hair that seems to ooze and melt into her jacket rather than falling over her shoulders). In terms of content, only the flower slippers seem out of place--good conception, mediocre execution.

The dwarf is an exercise in contrasts. Top half? Great! He's a cool, bad-ass dude (you know that because he has tattoos and shades!). Bottom half? Joystick? Tentacle pants? Good grief. The top half of the picture's drawn pretty well, too, but one can't even tell whether the bottom half was drawn well because it's just a bunch of squiggles. I think the artist lost inspiration halfway through, or something. Put him behind a bench and the picture'd look great.

The troll is again pretty good. He looks like he's rather bored with having his portrait drawn, but the quality is good (even the glowing symbols change the lighting) and there's nothing massively out of place. And hey--nice horns!

So from my perspective it's a mixed bag--but artwork usually is.

[Mugzy]

I can forgive the fact that the ork in fact does look like Rosie O'Donnell, and inferring the use of dual assaul rifles, an action that cannot be done. I can even forgive the sheep pants on the dwarf (though sticking him behind a bench so you cant see them would make that one perfect).

The human, however, is the only one I can't stand. The face paint, the position of the body, and the other things Ellery pointed out all make this one sub-par. But... the one thing I can't stand about the picture, is the absurd anime hair pigtails.

And here I was hoping they'd get away from the style of "Anime-Run," that has not been prolific in the books, but has crept its way into the various MUDs and a few games out there.

[Nyxll]

If you check out the artist's website ... you will see that she starts with photographs of people, then mods them.

[Homme-qui-rigole]

Did you notice that both dwarf (the one from the cover and the other from meta pics) had both ugly pants? Maybe dwarfs got racial flaw : "Always wear ugly pants" in SR4... Can a playtester confirm that? :rotfl:

[Ancient History]

They're baggy pants. To cover up their tremendous wangs.

[Nyxll]

since all dwarves in 4th edition are now scottish, and are played with a thick accent, their passtime is now shagging sheep and drinking beer. This fella shagged his sheep so hard that it's wool came off. He just hasn't had time to clean up.

[Ancient History]

Be fair. He might also be Welsh or Australian.

[Rev]

I think that the "loose alliances" cover which happened to be on the same page as the sr4 cover when I looked at it is much stronger. Better composition, leads the eye first to the two big guys standing up, then to the ones leaning over below who's gaze brings you to whatever is under the sheet.

Oh well, I guess the odds are that lots of sourcebooks will have better covers than the one main book! :)

[SL James]

[DrJest]

I have absolutely no knowledge of how to draw, what things are called, or anything like that. I completely fail to understand the majority of modern art, which to me looks like random splatters and squiggles.

In short, a typical Joe Average :) So, my completely unlearned opinions on the art:

Overall, the artist has some talent going for her, but I don't necessarily approve of her execution.

Cover: I'm sorry, I really am, but I hate it. It's a clusterfrag in progress, the most unprofessional bunch of wazzocks I've seen in a long time. Why are they standing right in front of the door? Do they want to get shot? Why is the human standing with his back to the action? And the human and dwarf's clothing, well... yeah... or more accurately, NO. Again, it's done well, but the content is awful.

Human: You know who that is? The martyr chick from the Hunter game series (Xbox and PS I think). I forget her name, Cassandra maybe? Anyway, it's her.
There's something I can't put my finger on about the posture that's somehow wrong. Not sure what it is.
Kabuki-face - is that a mask or just makeup? Firming that up either way would be good, it's too ambiguous.
THe hair... bad. Bad, bad hair. Even assuming that a runner would have hair that long (and I'd say most wouldn't - too easy to grab/get trapped) it would surely be kept neatly out of the way.
The clothes and accessories... basically don't match. Either she's going to a party (clothes and shoes say so) or she's on business (sword and knife say so). If she's on a run, she's an idiot for wearing that stuff.

Elf: Basially okay. The "freckles" I thought were tribal marks. Bell bottoms, unconvincing. Clothes in general, in fact, are again missing the point. This is not someone planning to do a shadowrun, potential armour on the fronts of her thighs notwithstanding. Proportions... again, make the eyes think there's something wrong.

Ork: Meh. Okay, I guess. The two AR's definitely infer using both at once. Floral shoes silly, proportions in the head/shoulder area make my eyes look for something wrong that might not be. Teeth not good, as mentioned elsewhere they look like bad plastic toys.

Dwarf. Rigger? Is that a drone? For the love of GOD change those trousers and that damn belt buckle. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY I play with would take that seriously. Everyone would be doing the Goat Dance from Dragnet and mocking him severely.

Troll: He makes me think of somebody huge and black, I can't think of who right now. Maybe the evil sidekick from The Mummy Returns, the one with the grudge against Ardeth Bey. Anyway... Probably my favourite of the bunch, fewer issues with the eyes going "there's something not right here". Tabard thing a bit disconcerting, but I guess it could be explained as a fetish of some kind. At least this one looks like he's ready to do the job.

Overall: I can't figure out what the artist is trying to convey here. Her metatypes look like clubgoers with weapons tacked on, and the cover (is it the same artist?) is deeply, deeply bad - not badly drawn, but bad from the point of view of "imitate these characters in your game and you will die. Lots."

[Critias]

[SL James]

Oh.

My mistake.

[Ol' Scratch]

Wow. This just looks really.... amateurish. The new logo, and particularly the two fonts there, especially. In the end it doesn't look like a new edition at all. Just more of the same old stuff, just uglier and less "buy me"ish.

Going through all this work to create a new system, then completely botching it by doing nothing to improve the actual image. Pretty sad. :(

And no offense really intended to those responsible for the art itself (well, okay, maybe towards the picture... I'm sorry, it bites). I'm sure you did the best you could. It just isn't very inspiring and does nothing to convey what it should convey -- that this is a completely new game targeted for a completely new audience.

[Critias]

Instead it's a completely new game carefully crafted to alienate their existing fan base -- halfway towards the goal of targeting a new audience, but not quite managing it.

Huzzah!

[Ellery]

The fonts aren't too exciting (especially the bottom one--it looks bloated), but the color scheme of the silver "Shadowrun" with the pale blue snaky S-thing is good. Those colors also tie in nicely to the main part of the cover. The cover looks like a circuit board--and it's pretty well done as far as circuit boards go, being both reasonably attractive from a distance and integrating nicely into the frame for the picture without looking like cheap junk.

I think the cover art, minus the actual picture in the middle, is pretty good. Better than SR3, which is just a black frame with some colored lines in it. The "Shadowrun" font is nicer in SR3, I think, but the "Third Edition" font looks just as goofy as the "Fourth Edition" font to my eye. Edition numbering seems to have a problem with fonts!

Second edition doesn't have quite as good a border as SR4, but it's more intricate than SR3 at least. The picture is, IMO, better both in terms of quality (detail, shadows, perspective) and subject (young adults/kids on the street doing something they shouldn't and getting in trouble with gangers or other low-life thugs--actually taking cover, looking towards the action, not dangling on random chains or with spurs coming out of the inside of their wrist on a arm that was put on inside-out). Then again, Larry Elmore produces quality work (even if he suffers from the female-PCs-wear-too-little disease like most fantasy artists).

[Ellery]

You know, if you look at Echo's page you can find that same picture of a human in color and with the legs chopped off. The human looks pretty good there. FanPro doesn't seem to be getting Echo's best work (and she does seem to do some pretty nice work).

Rather sad.

[Ol' Scratch]

Sweet zombie Jesus. I hadn't scrolled down on the page until now after wondering what Ellery was referring to.

I hate to say it, but I do believe I just jumped over to the "gah!" side of the fence. I could keep an open mind about on-the-surface subpar game mechanics. I could rationalize to myself how the new system would likely work well with those mechanics. But the artwork... for the dear love of God... THE ARTWORK! <breaks down into uncontrollable sobbing>

I'm sorry, Echo. I can appreciate your techniques and style, but... that's just wrong. Just... just wrong. On so many levels. So. Many. Levels. Especially with what you did to my beloved orks and dwarfs. GAH! <closes that window before he does something drastic>

[nezumi]

[nezumi]

(In all fairness, I showed the site to my wife, who's a professional artist. She said the following:

Cover: "it's alright. Professionally, it looks like just a little over neo-pro. Nothing too spectacular. Looks like something a semi-talented college student could do.... Most of that was regarding her cover, which sucks butt."

(That is recompiled over a chat. She's trying to be nice, I think. A sensitive artist to the end.)

The characters:
"Honestly, if the cover isn't hers, I'd give her all good reviews. [The dwarf] could be better, but it's better than the cover. I have nothing bad to say other than shame on her if she draws over photos. Taking a reference photo is one thing... but drawing over them is almost cheating. But I think the art is well done, textures are rendered nicely for the genre, (although it does look a little traditional fantasy), some of the images are funny, and the anatomy is well done. Excellent composition and visually interesting. The shadows under them aren't very well done. the hair and facial texture on the Ork shaman could use a lil work. It looks like her face is made of a few melting layers. Goggles could use some work. [The troll], most of the body seems unfinished. Everything below the waist."

The interviewer:
"Nezumi, you're really sexy. Lets go snuggle."

[Ancient History]

<insert the 14-letter s-word>

[nezumi]

[Ancient History]

[ Spoiler ]

snugglebunnies

[Jrayjoker]