Criminals or Terrorists, What are Shadowrunners to Society Options

[TheQuestionMan]

An interesting discussion on Shadowrunners came up on another Forum. Are Shadowrunners Criminals or Terrorists?

This dramatically affects how Law Enforcement, Security, & Intelligence Agemcies responses to them.

Arrest and Imprison

Exterminate with Extreme Prejudice

Zero Tolerance

Etc...

[Angelone]

Actually they are both since terrorists are criminals, but semantics. I'd have to go terrorists, they (in the public's eyes, mind you) blow stuff up, go have running gun battles, and kill random people because they can. Course that's only some shadowrunners, but can't let the masses know the whole truth can you?

EDIT- To organizations who know better I'd, most likely niavely, say that they are dealt with on a more or less case by case basis. They are not going to become best buddies with those hiring them, but the non-psychopathinc will get treated better.

[hyzmarca]

[nezumi]

I'd say both, but only because you specified law enforcement.

The Johnson sees them as assets. The competition may correctly recognize them as corporate espionage agents. Neighbors may see them as rebels or freedom fighters. Fixers may see them as mercenaries. It's just a question of who are you asking the question to?

[nezumi]

[Canis]

I think it probably varies from runner to runner. A group that focuses on breaking and entering is going to be labeled as criminals, a group that's blowing up factories and killing cops is probably going to get labeled as terrorist. At least this is how we play it.

[hyzmarca]

[Kagetenshi]

To society? Well, if people are as stupid as they are today they'll be terrorists. That being said, Shadowrunners are in it for the money and are themselves a means to an end—if they take a lot of "make people afraid" jobs, they could arguably be terrorists, but their primary goal is still cred.

[Rev]

If you do it for money you are a criminal.

If you do it for politics you are a terrorist/rebel/resistance fighter/whatever depending mainly on how sucessfull you are and who is applying the label but to some small extent on your tactics.

I find that most shadowrunner charachters are criminals.

[hyzmarca]

[Clyde]

Shadowrunners are criminals because their motive is profit. Terrorists always have a political beef of some sort (even if it's an absurd one).

[Kagetenshi]

General guideline:

Is general fear and panic the primary tool used in achieving a final aim, with other tools primarily dedicated to creating and extending said fear and panic?

If the answer is no, they're not terrorists. If the objective of the September 2001 World Trade Center attacks had been to kill the people inside the World Trade Center, it would not have been a terrorist action.

~J

[Sabosect]

None of the above. They're disposable assets with tendencies to have minor disagreements with the ideals of what is and what isn't legal.

[Rev]

But inspiring fear is really never an end, it is a means used by pretty much everybody who uses force. They inspire fear to cause some political change just as the military will often inspire fear to achieve some military goal which is itself designed to achieve some political goal. 'Shock and Awe' comes to mind as a perfect example of this. A criminal will often inspire fear to acheive thier monetary end. Bank robbers don't usually go in hoping to shoot everyone, they want everyone to be scared and give them the money so they can get away. Police also use fear to capture and convict suspects.

[Kagetenshi]

*Points to the phrase "primary tool"*

I should expand on the word "general"—perhaps it would do better replaced by "widespread". Also notice the "panic" requirement—bank robbers may want fear, but tend to prefer to avoid panic. The "shock and awe" campaign is a perfect example of terrorism, however.

~J

[Kanada Ten]

Criminals, mercenaries, terrorists, killers, kewlers, radicals, rebels, deviants, freedom fighters, anarchists, fringe elements, shadowrunners.

[Shadow]

Shadowrunners are criminals, not terrorists. Terrorists do it for a cause, money is not a cause, but a means. Not everyone who commits crimes for money is a mercenary either. Mercenaries are professional soldiers. Very few Shadowrunners fall under the heading of professional soldier.

I think some corps would like Shadowrunners to be labeled as terrorist but have failed. Obviously so since their is a popular TV. show about Shadowrunners. I draw a comparison between shows about the mob. People idolize the mob, they think of them as some kind of honorable criminal. Same goes for Shadowrunners. People see them as honorable warriors living outside society fighting against corps.

The truth is they are just criminals trying to survive in a harsh system.

[Velocity]

[Shadow]

Lets try to keep personal opinions about todays politics out of this discussion. It could be a good one, it would suck to have it fall down to a hate U.S./Love U.S. argument.

[Canis]

Terrorist is just a label, if you perform any action a government declares as terrorist then you are a terrorist. Scale is very important to becoming a terrorist. If my goal in life is to terrorize my ex-girlfriend then I’m a stalker not a terrorist. Also human death is usually more important than actual fear. If I place a fake bomb in an airport and scare thousands then I will probably be arrested, but I won’t be tried as a terrorist. Alternatively if a doomsday cult wants to create a virus to wipe out humanity they will be labeled as a terrorist organization despite the fact that they don’t want to scare anyone (just kill them).

[FrostyNSO]

I say niether. It all depends on the job and the individual. I suggest a third option which has already been brought up : Mercenary or (Independant Contractor).

[Velocity]

[Birdy]

Other:

+ If you do it sneaky with few/no dead bodies and steal something, you are a criminal like the British Post-Robbers or the guys who robbed the Brasilien national bank

+ If you do extractions, you are a kidnapper

+ If you do selectiv kills without a political background, you end up as a killer

+ If you do this to leave a message (Öko, Rassist, whatever) you are a terrorist

+ If you attack political targets and are a very small group (Think german RAF, British IRA) you are a terrorist

+ If you attack political targets and are a rather large group (Think Continental army, Anti-Communist fighter in commiland, Pro-Commi fighters in capitalistland) you are a revolutionary or a freedom fighter based on who is talking

+ If you start out as a terrorist and win, you become a revolutionary or a Lord Protector (Think Castro, Cromwell)
As for regular combatants:

A force that

+ Openly carries weapons
+ Has identification marks (Armband or better)
+ Shows a clear organisation
+ (A bit optional: Adhers to the rules of war)

is considered a "regular combatant". This includes standing armies, police forces, citizen militias etc. An example would be: Vietcong assaulting a "fortified village" a la "The green berrets" would be regular combatants (Open weapons, Organised, Identification) while the same group hiding in a village (Hidden weapon etc) would be criminals/terrorists.

Birdy

[Canis]

I think that's a pretty good breakdown, a bit clearer than mine.

[Phoniex]

Yes i think the REASON behind the action basically defines what you are. If your getting paid to do something illegal in general your a criminal. Once you go beyond stealing and getting into assassination and MASSIVE desctruction you could be called a terrorist. But unless you have motives other than :nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen: then really all you are is a mass murderer or serial killer. Not a terrorist. I guess to me the difference is if you would blow yourself up for a job, if so then your a terrorist if not then your just a slimy criminal like everyone else :P