Newish Player Need Equipment Help For Stealth Char Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Leviathan]

I'm playing an Orc PhysAdapt (Invisible Way), I'm doing ok at sneaking about, but I seem to be near *useless* in combat, I've done better with a tank of Splat Glue than I did with my pistol.
I'll put the stats for my character below, can I get some help on
a) how to make him more effective on combat
b) what equipment I should grab
I've got 17 Karma to spend (have been saving up to initiate), and about 40k to spend.

Stats
Body 8
Quick 7
Str 7
Cha 1
Int 5
Will 6

Skills
Active
Pistols 6
Athletics 6
Stealth 6 [10]
Wildcat 6
Wildcat/Close Combat
Wildcat/Full Attack (Man, I should never have taken this, didn't realise they get the -2TN bonus to 'block' against your attack
Electronics B/R / Secutiry Systems 4/6
Negotiation 1

Knowledge/Language
Japanese 3
Japanese RW 1
English 4
English RW 2
KNO Corporate Security 5
KNO Coprorate Procedures 5
KNO Security Systems 5
KNO Leadership-Tactics 5
KNO Security Devices/Detection Measures 4/6

Powers
Imp Sense: Enhanced Hearing
Imp Sense: Thermo Vision
Motion Sense
Traceless Walk
Magic Sense
Imp Physical Attr (Quickness) 2
Imp Physical Skill (Stealth) 4
Imp Reflexes Lvl 1

Edges/Flaws
Sense of Direction
Double Jointed
Photographic Memory
Weak Immune System
Sensitive System
Astral Impressions

Main Equipment
Colt Manhunter (With Silencer)
Shock Glove
Shotgun Pistol (Forgotten the actual name)
Form fitting body armour
Secure longcoat
Rapid transit heavy jumpsuit (have all Camo Sets on the colour changing chip, plus a couple of others)
Rapid Transit helmet
Freeze Foam
Splay Glue
etc...

Can anyone help?

[Slacker]

My suggestion would be to get a dart pistol with darts filled with your choice of toxins. Its silent and very deadly. The only down side is the low ammo capacity and ammo is rather expensive, but its worth it.

[CrystalBlue]

First off, lose the Roomsweaper. That shotgun/pistol is such an unneeded weapon for you, and you're just asking for lower concealablility. Second, I'd downgrade the Manhunter to a light pistol. No, you won't be doing that much damage with it. But this is why you sneak up on people and hold them up, or go for called shots. I would also get it rigged with Smartlink-2 and buy yourself a nice set of Smartshades-2. That would lower the difficulty of your called shots by 2. Now that you have the ability to sneak up on people AND kill them, your martial arts. Yes, you did pick a poor martial art. You should find a good subdueing martial art. As a sneaking character, your job isn't to do that much damage. It's to get to where you need to go with as little chance of being seen as possible. And that means that anything that won't drop a man in one hit will be useless. The next thing I'd save up money for, if you have the right contacts, is a spell focus with something like Invisability on it, or get a Quickened tattoo with some type of camo spell on it. Pricy, yes. But definately worth it.

Remember this. Covert-op characters aren't meant to fight. A one-on-one or a two-on-one battle should be a challange for you. You're not a tank and you're not a bullet hose. That's the HMG troll's job. Your job is to get in, get out, and make sure no one is the wiser.

[the_dunner]

Hmm, lots of combat pool, 6 pistols skill, 6 melee skill, but ... no smartgun.

It looks like your problem, for shooting at least, is that your target numbers are too high. A pair of smart goggles and a smartgun link for each of your pistols will be a significant help.

But, are you also having problems in melee? If so, the only real solution I can see is for you to pick up a weapon that gives you reach. And that, clearly, means learning a new melee weapon skill. :(

Definitely save your karma for initiation. That's going to give you more options than anything else you'd spend those points on.

[Leviathan]

I'm not doing great in close combat either (though the last time I was in close combat was against 3 guys with stun batons, damned friends in melee rules). Cose combat negates all their reach stuff, and I deal plenty of damage, but I just dont seem to be able to hit much. Bloody close combat ability is *useless*, whats the point of it if they get -2TN for all of their rolls to avoid your hit? You're doing nothing but attacking so they get *bonuses* to defend against you?

The smart goggles and smartlink is a good idea, shall do that one.

As to dumping the shotgun pistol, no way, it's the only reason I survived being chest to chest with a dude with a heavy machine gun and heavy armour. I had both a moderate wound and moderate stun, and blew him out of hit boots with the shotgun pistol.

This guy was designed for get in, disable the security, sneak up behind and KO or kill the guards, then get out again, he seems to be not doing so well at the third one...

[CrystalBlue]

As I said, if you want to be a ghost, be a ghost. If you want to weild a shotgun, wield a shotgun. But I'm sorry to say, the two don't go well together. You need to maximize your stealth and minimize your attack power. Your ability to kill comes from you hiding, sneaking, laying ambushes, watching, waiting, and then striking. There should never be any reason you need a shotgun. If you get caught by more then one guy, you should get the hell out, period. If you are out-gunned, you need to dodge and use your close-quarters combat against them, and if you can't...then run. You have chummers that back you up. That's why they're there. Use them for cover. You earn your nuyen by NOT shooting everyone that moves.

And wildcat increases your damage, I believe, but the -2 TN is because your swings are mostly wild and easily blockable, which means you don't hit as much...but when you do, you hit very hard.

[Jrayjoker]

I'd specialize Athletics to climbing, and pick up stealth line and mini-grappels.

[Velocity]

[Crusher Bob]

One of the problems of the infiltration guy (or gal) is that if (when) they screw up they end up looking down the barrel of a lot of guns at once. One thing you should add is things which can even the odds on a you vs many situation. Learning thrown weapons(grenades) at 1/3 is cheap and lets you either go one the offensive against a group of guys (with flash or explosive grenades) or make your odds of survival better (flash or smoke grenades).

Attaching some flashpacks to your infiltration suit can help to (as long as you have flare comp). Get surprised in close quarters by a guard? trigger the flash pack stuck to your helmet.

Initiation is usually the way to go with adepts, extra skill dice as adept powers are almost always cheaper than buying the skill up, and you get metamagic as well. So find yourself a group (or make your own) and get started on the initiation.

[mmu1]

Ok... Based on your responses, it seems to me that the problem is one or more of these:

1. You're picking your fights badly

2. Your GM is throwing opposition at you that is simply too powerful

3. You have unrealistic expectations when it comes to your character's combat ability

Surviving a melee combat vs. three enemies with reach weapons without a reach weapon of your own is not doing badly - it's doing very well.

Similarly, if you're packing a pistol and go straight up against a guy wearing heavy armor and wielding a HMG and manage to walk away, you're not doing "badly", either.

It looks like you're getting into fights you just don't belong in, and still managing to survive.

My stealth character - a cybered one, not an adept - relies on ruthenium not to be seen and all the sensory enhancements he could get his hands on to see his enemies first - and 90% of "combats" he's been in so far involved either aiming carefully and shooting someone in the head with a silenced heavy pistol, or punching someone in the back with a shock glove.
He's had two "straight up" fights so far... Someone jumped him with a knife once, and he fought the guy off and ran until he could hide and get his gun ready. The second time, a guy opened up on him with an AR, so he lobbed a couple of concussion grenades at him while falling back, and came back to poke him with a gun once the echoes died down.

Sticking around to fight someone on their own terms is a losing proposition no matter what archetype you play.

[toturi]

Depending on how your GM views the Surprise Rules, Full Offense may be a good choice for a maneuver. If he interprets that when surprised, an opponent cannot do anything to impede your attack includes making the Unarmed Combat roll (which is how I see it), then it is a superb manuever to take since it is almost certain that you will surprise any opponent. Also you can deliberately attack from a superior position when you spring your surprise attack, so you get the -1TN for your attack.

[Velocity]

[Leviathan]

Currently I seem to be pulling a sneak around, but the enemy always seems to know I'm there anyway, so ambushing and etc I dont seem to get much of an option.
Running into close combat the enemy still seem to have as much melee skill as I do, as well as SMGs that damned near always hit (I get 7 successes on my body test and still take M wounds, after decent dodge rolls as well), so I'm no better than 50/50 in melee, and way outgunned in a firefight. And apparently I can never manage to soak the stun damage from a stun baton. The shotgun pistol was the only thing to keep me alive after the drek hit the fan. I did better with a canister of splat glue (glued three to the ground after an ally knocked one off his feet and into the other two).

Last run I was crouched behind a barrier (that I'd made of freeze foam, since there were two guys with SMGs in the corridore), and had three dudes with stun batons jump over and lay into me. Thanks to Close Combat I survived with only a medium stun, and bolted. Got blasted with an SMG a bit later after gluing three to the ground, rolled 7 successes on my soak so I only took another M wound. Blew the guy out of his boots with the shotgun pistol since my manhunter was basically useless.
I can say this, thank god for armour layering! Ballistic 9, Impact 8

Crusher Bob - what are flash packs, what book, cost etc, and how can I put them on armour?

I've, after some discussion, come up with the following 'to get list'

Silenced Ruger Thunderbolt (we are playing in Australia, so no LoneStar), probably end up costing 10k
Smartlink built into my helmet, 3k
Can I get flare-comp built into a helmet?
Breath mask built into helmet?
Smartlink my other pistols, say 1k
Much different kinds of ammo
Some grenades
Maybe burn some karma on grenades skill?
Ruthenium body suit would be nice, but my GM has set the price at 80k

Any other ideas? Please give references to what book things are in, and costs if you have them on hand.
Also, what adept powers would people advice from here? I was thinking of Wall Running

[Slacker]

Flashpaks are in the BBB. They create a strobing light that produces glare plus an additional disorienting effect due to randomize strobing, to anybody facing it.

[CrystalBlue]

I'm sorry...I finally found out why you can't do anything. Your quickness should be almost cut in half by the amount of armor you have on. The only thing you should ever be wearing into a run is full form-fitting body armor. Put some adds on that, but that's it. You need to learn that you have to be small, silent, and able to move freely. I believe that with the amount of armor you have on, you are getting penelties to your stealth. At least, I would be giving you a bunch. At least a +4 to all stealth checks. No wonder people are seeing you all the time. And the fact that you walk away from odds that are against you is phenomanal. You should have been dead a long time ago. I'd re-tool your character and make it a fighter...it's not a stealth person anymore.

[Velocity]

[toturi]

[mmu1]

Based on what you've posted so far (unless there's somehow more to this story, and the uber-enemies make sense), your character isn't the problem (though he could use a bit ot tweaking) - your GM is.

If enemies always seem to know where your character is, and they pack enough heat to routinely hurt you despite 9/8 armor, and you're always outgunned and outnumbered, then it's pretty clear that the GM is making an effort to make sure you get into fights and get hurt. Maybe that's just what his idea of a challenging run is.
I seriously doubt there's anything you can do to change this, since it's not the rules of the game that are causing your character to fail. Not with 10 dice in stealth, 6's in combat skills and 9/8 armor...

[mmu1]

[Velocity]

From the thread "Inflitration Challenge," here's a designed-by-committee infiltration PC for which I can take absolutely NO credit. :) Might provide some useful ideas for you. Granted, this is a Grade 4 Initiate but still...

Note the lack of big guns;
Note the specialization "Narcoject";
Note the adept power Spell Shroud;

[toturi]

That is the problem with Stealth. It is often applied as an open test. So more dice simply means you got a better chance of a higher number. 9/8 armour with 7 Quickness incurs penalties. So that further reduces the chances of his sneaking successfully. I think it is his not being familiar with the rules that is causing his PC to screw up.

I think if his GM had posted this PC here instead, we'd be saying what a dumb ass this player was.

[CrystalBlue]

[toturi]

Rapid Transport Heavy has Ballistic 2, Impact 4.

[CrystalBlue]

Yes, I know that he's saying that he's still dieing, even with armor. My point is, he's no longer a stealth character. He needs to strip down to the full suit, carry light gear, and try one run doing that. I think he'd have a lot better chance at living and sneaking. If he still get's caught, then that means his DM is a jerk.

You need to closely monitor your armor and your quickness. Not only does your quickness determine your stealth, it also determines your pistols skill. Get rid of most of the armor, and I can almost gaurentee that you'll be as silent as a mute mouse.

[mmu1]

That still doesn't fix the issue of security guards with 6s in combat skills...

I don't have the rules with me, but isn't FFBA ignored for the purposes of calculating the penalties for layering armor and calculating combat pool? Also, wearing a helmet shouldn't (IMO) be considered layering armor, but how is it viewed by the rules?

The vibe I get is that the campaign is very high-powered - he's got an insane amount of armor and the GM is ok with that, because his NPCs are uber and get their shots in anyway. But who knows?