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Homme-qui-rigole
post Aug 16 2005, 11:40 PM
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Previews of the North America Page

Tsimshian is now a part of Salis-Shidhe

layout: Ugly. Period.
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hermit
post Aug 16 2005, 11:45 PM
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They actually just edited the 2nd edition map.
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Homme-qui-rigole
post Aug 16 2005, 11:48 PM
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Yeah, it seem so but they resize it in a odd layout
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mintcar
post Aug 16 2005, 11:58 PM
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no color and no fold-out format. :(
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Ranneko
post Aug 17 2005, 12:00 AM
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Yucatan now appears to be independant, the Ute is gone and the PCC is larger.

Interesting.
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Sabosect
post Aug 17 2005, 12:02 AM
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Damn. Ute was one of my favorite places to force the players to go. And with the Azzies out of Yucaton, that place loses some of its fun.
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hermit
post Aug 17 2005, 12:12 AM
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It looks like Ute just got absorbed into the PCC, possibly the crash dealt it's already shitty economy the death blow and the PCC moved in to save the day.

And having had a good, hard look at California, here's what I guess:

Winternight, having read "hammer of god" like all good terrorists with nuclear weapons should have, detonates their weapon focus nuke inside the san andreas rift. This results in a megaquake (I don't remember who said that, but I agree with them now) that created these islands out of the land between santa barbara and SanFran and sunk LA and San Diego and Tijuana and made the peninsula an island. It's basically the SA rift sunken.
Now, of course, such a quake causes massive damage and wrecks two of the continent's largest sprawls. And again, it's PCC to the rescue (I bet they also have cut a deal with Celedyr on wireless matrix access just prior to the crash. PCC, the new Aztlan), as they already have LA and are propably expecting a huge refugee wave into the now-assimilated areas formerly known as Ute Nation. Now, to avoid the inevitable civil war brought by that (and the Ute peoples' friendly attitude), they establish their own SoCal protectorate and make it a PCC province.

The war between SSC and Tshimshian that has long been brewing also has finally started, adn apparently, Tshimshian cannot depend on MCT any more. Either the corp cut a deal with the SSC, or MCT is recalled to Japan to rebuild it from whatever desaster has struck it (another RoF outbreak triggered by the nuke-focus?). Anyway, it seems Tshimshian is occupied but not fully under control, or the war is still raging.

Otherwise, nothing changed except Yucatan's independence becoming factual. Not that this is a country where anyone would want to live, being half a giant toxic domain and half run by quite mad spirits, with little population left.
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Ellery
post Aug 17 2005, 12:30 AM
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Sounds like a good guess for the explanation, hermit. I wonder what the ~1km tall tsunami did to the rest of the Pacific rim (and how the west coast of North America survived the rebounding tsunami, which would probably be around 100m tall, IIRC).
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hermit
post Aug 17 2005, 12:35 AM
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QUOTE (Ellery @ Aug 17 2005, 02:30 AM)
Sounds like a good guess for the explanation, hermit.  I wonder what the ~1km tall tsunami did to the rest of the Pacific rim (and how the west coast of North America survived the rebounding tsunami, which would probably be around 100m tall, IIRC).

Think this year's tsunami squared. >_< If the death toll is below 30 million, I'll be deeply disappointed.

I wonder how Hong Kong made it through this. Huge magical barriers? Friendly sea spirits stopping the tsunami? *shrugs*

Oh, and the rebound would wipe all towns off the coasts except for Seattle (that island right before it is finally good for something). But the Hallowieners are washed into the sea. Tough luck, never liked them anyway.

And as the docks are THE meeting area for shadowrunners and they will perish too, I guess that's why we'll all make new chars for SR4. ;)

But that explains why MCT is letting Tshimshian down. They gotta head home and pick up the pieces.
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Ellery
post Aug 17 2005, 12:44 AM
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Maybe Hong Kong is now one giant arcology and the tsunami just washed over the enclosing dome. ("Hey, look Mommy, there's a giant squid in the sky!" "You have such an imagination, dear!")
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hermit
post Aug 17 2005, 12:47 AM
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:rotfl:
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SL James
post Aug 17 2005, 01:59 AM
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QUOTE (hermit)
I wonder how Hong Kong made it through this. Huge magical barriers? Friendly sea spirits stopping the tsunami? *shrugs*

Line Developer fiat. It doesn't have to make sense, because this map sure as hell doesn't make any sense.
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Paul
post Aug 17 2005, 03:30 AM
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Am I the only person who hasn't been able toopen any of the links this guy has been posting?

In fact it turns out I can't open them from the FanPro site either.
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Sabosect
post Aug 17 2005, 03:32 AM
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They're PDFs.
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otaku mike
post Aug 17 2005, 03:33 AM
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Tsunamis happen when the epicenter of the quake is offshore. In the case of California, the epicenter(s) surely are inland. When the waters rushed in, there was very probably lots of damage (in addition to the quakes'), but not much of a tsunami everywhere else around.
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Paul
post Aug 17 2005, 03:37 AM
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QUOTE (Sabosect)
They're PDFs.

Yeah I'm a retard, I'll shut up now.



Thanks.
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Sabosect
post Aug 17 2005, 03:44 AM
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QUOTE (Paul)
Yeah I'm a retard, I'll shut up now.



Thanks.

I was just stating it in case that was the problem.
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Ellery
post Aug 17 2005, 03:44 AM
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QUOTE (otaku mike @ Aug 16 2005, 10:33 PM)
Tsunamis happen when the epicenter of the quake is offshore. In the case of California, the epicenter(s) surely are inland. When the waters rushed in, there was very probably lots of damage (in addition to the quakes'), but not much of a tsunami everywhere else around.

Where do you think all the surplus rock went? Into the ocean, maybe? Moving 1000+ cubic miles of rock into the ocean is going to cause a pretty big tsunami. (Heck, even the wave rebounding from the rush of water into the flooded area would probably cause damage on the other side of the Pacific.)

Added in edit: the 2004 quake in Indonesia apparently displaced about 8 cubic miles of water; not counting the event in middle CA, the Los Angeles-San Diego event drawn on the map would be at least a hundred times greater, and probably more like a thousand if the rock was not carted off piece by piece and carefully dropped into the ocean.

You're right that earthquakes in CA don't normally cause tsunamis. This is because CA doesn't normally fall into the ocean. (Not that there's anywhere to fall to, since the ocean is not an infinite abyss and the continental shelf is a ways offshore, but never mind that.)
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Cynic project
post Aug 17 2005, 03:45 AM
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Does it look liek Saito got kicked out to anyone else besides me?
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otaku mike
post Aug 17 2005, 03:50 AM
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QUOTE (Ellery)
Where do you think all the surplus rock went? Into the ocean, maybe? Moving 1000+ cubic miles of rock into the ocean is going to cause a pretty big tsunami. (Heck, even the wave rebounding from the rush of water into the flooded area would probably cause damage on the other side of the Pacific.)

It doesn't have to go anywhere. It could have sunk into a large faultline depression.

Anyway, just for the record, I'm not too fond of the new coastline either, but I'm sure it's workable into the setting. Weirder things have happened in SR.
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Ellery
post Aug 17 2005, 03:59 AM
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QUOTE (otaku mike @ Aug 16 2005, 10:50 PM)
QUOTE (Ellery @ Aug 17 2005, 03:44 AM)
Where do you think all the surplus rock went?  Into the ocean, maybe?  Moving 1000+ cubic miles of rock into the ocean is going to cause a pretty big tsunami.  (Heck, even the wave rebounding from the rush of water into the flooded area would probably cause damage on the other side of the Pacific.)

It doesn't have to go anywhere. It could have sunk into a large faultline depression.

Anyway, just for the record, I'm not too fond of the new coastline either, but I'm sure it's workable into the setting. Weirder things have happened in SR.

Um, so there was a 1000 cubic mile air pocket underneath southern CA? Where does all that matter go? It can't just vanish. If it goes down, then it pushes other stuff away from it. With dip-slip faults (subducting ones), the descending plate firstly moves very slowly so there's time for errant material to get out of the way, and secondly the other plate rises upwards somewhat to compensate. Maybe there's a new 20,000' tall mountain range there, too?

In terms of physics, this takes the cake for weirdness by an order of magnitude. Weirder things have not happened in that sense.

It's a little hard to compare mindbogglingly massive geological changes that take place in no more than a few years with magic springing into existence. I'm not sure what metric one would use to measure them so they could be compared.
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mmu1
post Aug 17 2005, 04:04 AM
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The miniature plot-holes powering certified credsticks lost containment when the Matrix crashed and sucked it all up, ok?
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otaku mike
post Aug 17 2005, 04:09 AM
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Well, don't look at me for definitive answers, 'cause I don't have any. I'm just like you, trying to make sense of this change, because I don't know the fine details that Rob planned for that. But while your approach is one of denial and opposition to the change (which doesn't mean it's not a valid approach), mine is to try to find an explanation that embraces the change and makes it palatable (no easy task I admit).

For all I know, the coastline presented in SR4 map is still a temporary one, with waters slowly receding to the ocean, and flooded areas are not deeper than a couple meters at most. Or it could be a deep chasm rivaling the Marianas Trench just on CA's doorstep...
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Ellery
post Aug 17 2005, 04:12 AM
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QUOTE (otaku mike)
mine is to try to find an explanation that embraces the change and makes it palatable (ne easy task I admit)
That's my normal approach too. But I know when I am defeated. 5000 foot tall mountains don't get covered with a few meters of water that slowly receed. Such waters tend to, you know, rush downwards pretty quickly.

QUOTE (mmu1)
The miniature plot-holes powering certified credsticks lost containment when the Matrix crashed and sucked it all up, ok?
Hahaha, that's the best explanation yet. At least it's funny :)
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Sabosect
post Aug 17 2005, 04:15 AM
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QUOTE (Ellery @ Aug 16 2005, 10:59 PM)
It's a little hard to compare mindbogglingly massive geological changes that take place in no more than a few years with magic springing into existence.  I'm not sure what metric one would use to measure them so they could be compared.

I use cubic tons myself.

Seriously? Compare this with Ireland and what happened for the Awakening. Or, that matter, the changes that happened to humans and animals. Or, how about, the sudden appearance of giant flying intelligent reptiles. Maybe even what a certain comet did as it passed by, the little astral problem in a certain city, etc.

Basically put, this is pretty much on par for Shadowrun.
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