So is there anything anyone DOES like about SR 4? Options

[cleggster]

If I am reading this right, I looks like youi don't have force ratings for spells anymore. I like that. In all three past incarnations, there was allways some spells that had no real reason to put anything into them. And in second edition, there was no reason for Spellcasting. One less thing for the min-maxers to worry about.

[SL James]

Well, you don't buy spells at Force anymore. Since Magic is variable, you're capped at casting (Magic*2) Force spells.

[Kagetenshi]

[Cheops]

[Nimbex]

[Rolemodel]

Stomaching the fact that Otaku and Elves are still around, and will probably never leave, I'm going to have to cast my vote in favor in the restructuring of skill levels.

-RM
"I haven't figured out how to say 'FUCK YOU' politely."

[hahnsoo]

[tisoz]

I like the "tabs" sort of thing , like phonebooks, where each section has a dark "tab" to help find things easier.

[Shadow_Prophet]

[Nikoli]

[eidolon]

[Taran]

What I've heard about equipment costs, especially cyberware costs, pleases me greatly.

[Clyde]

I like the street level default for the game.

[6thDragon]

1. They changed some of the long broken aspects of damage. examples light pistols or knives vs unarmed attack.
2. The standard target number removes some of the min-maxing there too. if I shoot 6 round I'll have a target number of 6, so I might as well add two more round and make it 8. (there is no difference between 6-7 or 12-13 and little difference between 7-8 and 14-15).
3. Reaction is no longer tied to intelligence (not every combat oriented character will be an unlikely genius in order to max out inititive)
4. I haven't seen rules for riggers, but they were always way too overpowering with a high level VCR. (all their drones going on the same inititive)
5. Making physads more powerful and could probably hold their own against a street sam of comparable experience.
6. skills plus attributes. This gives a reason to have a skill at a low level. Otherwise you're better defaulting to the attribute.
7. You can no longer beat the shit out of someone on their inititive pass during melee combat.

these are just to name a few

[Omega Skip]

Call me Mr. Negative, but I really like the fact that I don't have to play SR4. And the fact that the roleplaying police won't send their Happy-Fun Teams after me anymore if I do something... "unorthodox" with SR3 material.

To me, this looks like a complete win-win scenario.
:D

[blakkie]

[Lucyfersam]

Overall, I'm a big fan of everything I've read, the new system is well thought out, easily expandable, and while I haven't had a chance to play but it looks like it will work well. I really like most of the art, and I recommend taking a magnifying glass to the picture of the medkit in the gear section, it is pretty funny. The glitch system is the best implementation of a critical failure system I've seen. The Edge attribute is very cool, more broadly useful than Karma pool was, helps replace some of combat pool. I haven't gone through Technomancers section, so I don't know what I think of that yet. I really like the fact that a hermetic mage can now have a mentor spirit (totem), as it opens the way for some of the classic hermetic ideas based around angels. The choice to make Fire the type of spirits that shamans don't get is a little strange, although it does make some sense. They unbroke the Confusion critter power, which makes me very happy as that was about the most broken thing in the game in 3rd ed. I'd say they did an excellent job designing the game, and I'm glad they scrapped the old system and built it from scratch.

[Catsnightmare]

I hate the stupid-fuck fixed TN, I hate the new attribute+skill crap, hate the new attribute limits and skill limits, hate the whole "street level" base setting, hate the new magic system, hate the new Points char creation system and the total lack of Priority char creation system, dont' like the new skill categories, fucking hate the way magic skills were broken up, hate the way Bioware costs Essence, don't like some of the new availability ratings, fucking hate the whole damned Resonance concept (peoples brains can now naturally talk bluetooth and transmitt? BULLSHIT! IMO)

However, the new initiative system intrigues me somewhat, I want to try retro-converting it .

Decking rules, I'm waiting for a PDF to see/read them firsthand before I decide.

Rigging rules, nothing has really come out on the board about it, waiting for a PDF to see/read them firsthand before I decide, might retro convert it if it seems worthwhile.

Combat system, doesn't look like I'm gonna like it that much, since it relies on the FUBAR new system, have to look at it to be sure. The armor vs penetration/stun damage thing may be worth the effort to retro convert but then again it may not. Have to see it first.

Like the lowered cyberware nuyen and essence costs. But the wireless stuff and lack of VCR I'll have to look at to be sure but sounds unappealing to me.

[Bandwidthoracle]

[blakkie]

[Catsnightmare]

It's just that in my oppinion, SR3 had the best magic system of any RPG I've played or read. There were only a very small number of faults I found with it, but to me by and far it surpassed everything else. It was one those things that fell under the umbrella of "if it isn't broken don't try to fix it" then it was tossed aside, then dissed most rudely, and replaced with something that looks like a total cluster fuck!

Basically it boils down to a matter of personal taste, and everything l liked was changed or thrown out.

[Bandwidthoracle]

[hahnsoo]

While I've always liked the philosophy behind the SR magic systems, the SR3 incarnation was merely a jury rig of a system that was broken since SR1. There are a number of mechanics that simply were too open to abuse (Force 2 Invisibility anyone?), and everything spell-related revolved around maxing out your Spellcasting + Magic Pool. Also, it has the same "Two successes to do anything" problem.

The only major changes that SR4 has are Magic rating being bought as an attribute (a necessary balance change) and the breaking of barriers between all of the traditions (it was coming to that anyway with UMT in SOTA:2064). If anything, magic has become much more organic than before. I like how the new Drain system allows for individual successes (i.e. Any net ODD numbers) to have an effect. Philosophically, the magic system is the same as before.

[tisoz]

[Kagetenshi]

I want to add that that means those individual spells are broken, not that the magic system is broken.

~J