 New Update!, SR4 Sample Char: Weapon Specialist |
  |
 Aug 18 2005, 09:47 PM
Post
#251
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741  |
Heh. True. Quite possible.
|
 |
 
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 09:47 PM
Post
#252
|
|
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Bah. Edited, though I liked Sabosect's original post. Good deal.
This post has been edited by SL James: Aug 18 2005, 09:48 PM |
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 09:48 PM
Post
#253
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
with a hard limit of 6 on just about everything, how many levels of power are there, really?
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 09:52 PM
Post
#254
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
There's these seven levels:
0- You have no clue how to attempt it. 1- You suck at it. 2- You don't suck as badly. 3- Okay, you're human. 4- Wow. You actually know some of what you're doing. 5- You just negotiated Lofwyr into selling Saeder-Krupp. 6- Bow down, mortals! |
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 09:53 PM
Post
#255
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
indeed. truly a wide range.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 09:59 PM
Post
#256
|
|
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
That sucks! (the range, not your ideas. Those are quite amusing.)
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 10:10 PM
Post
#257
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 442 Joined: 23-April 04 From: Pennsylvania Member No.: 6,280 |
The quote lists no natural upper limit on skills. It seems plausible to me, given the nature of Shadowrun, that those skills have no upper bound and that skills merely become progressively more expensive.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 10:16 PM
Post
#258
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Which is exactly my problem and the reason I have to spend 4-5 days in testing to make sure my adjustments are correct.
Now, I think the we've ground the bones into dust. Shall we let this dead horse lie? |
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 10:44 PM
Post
#259
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
Well you have some interesting concepts there Sabosect. Now first off, yeah, a weapon specialist could get imediately killed by the guards. But so could a 150 karma sam in sr3 if he's stupid enough not to do any recon. If you gm the way you sound like you gm, I'm glad I don't game with you.
4-5 days for tweaking a system you don't know weather or not it will be powerful enough or not. Out of curiosity are you planning on spending any time testing out how the base rules play? or are you going to flip to powering up characters (which I'll note i think is a horribly silly idea)? If you were going to do that I'd say if you wanted to effectively test out and adjust the power of the system, I'd say it'd take you about 6-10 good days of testing and tweaking. Begining with a test of the base rule set then proceding to your tweaks. I'm still not certain at all on why you need to apparently tweak the availability on things, but hey, I think its a silly idea to turn up the power level of the campaign like that. I mean if you're just turning things up to get on a level you're used to as a gm it sounds like a bit of a crutch. As for my coments revolving around the threshold system. From the looks of what they've put out about the dice system in 4th ed, it apears to be very close to the way exalted and the WoD is run currently by white wolf. Being that those are the well established systems out using a threshold system, and the comments they've made themselves, and the way the sheet is set up for that matter (wound penalties and such) one can easily deduce that the way threshold and dice pools work. And no a -10 dicepool penalty does not nessicarily kill a player. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 11:04 PM
Post
#260
|
|||||||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Recon is all well and good, but it still doesn't change the fact that sometimes you have to deal with guards. As for my GMing style: I'm both a GM and a player in that game. I and another switch every session. The campaign style is a professional level with the PCs being the people you hire when every sane person refuses to go near. These are the people you would hire to extract an important scientist out of Bug City, or at least kill him before he spills too much information, and fully expect them to go in and come back out alive. The runs are gritty, dangerous, and challenging. And the players love it.
Actually, I plan on devoting the first day to it. You would be surprised what you can get done with a full twelve to sixteen hours devoted to something. Note that does not include time spent reading the book, as I plan to familiarize myself with it before I even start. As for turning up the power level: I'm planning on powering it up for my player's tastes. I have to test the items as well because I will not be familiar enough with the system to simply look at an item and decide to disallow it.
Turning it up to the level the players demand. I'm perfectly fine playing a regular street mage trying to get by. The rest of the group isn't. They've mostly had enough of it with their time playing SR2 and 3 (I'm one of only two members who started with SR3). A good GM gets the players to agree to their campaign, but a great GM goes with the players.
So we're going to be playing Shadow: The Running? I'm thinking, though, that you're right.
Congrats, the explosion shot you out of the window. Next time, wait until you're out of the room to detonate. Or, at least, be close to the door. You're both nearly unconcious and nearly dead. Make an athletics test to grab the windowsill before you fall 50 stories to your death. Oh, and due to wounds, minus ten to your dice pool. What do you mean you only have six dice? Just use your edge. Oh, I see, you only have a three there... Well, have this lovely character sheet. |
||||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||||
|
Aug 18 2005, 11:17 PM
Post
#261
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
You missed: 7 - Bow down lesser immortals. Plus the extra levels created by combining with attributes that takes the working levels from 1 to something like 16. Not many SR3 PCs got up that high. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 18 2005, 11:18 PM
Post
#262
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
I'm sorry, this makes me laugh.
From the sound of it you expect them to make that and survive. You also have ignored ALL my previous points I've made to you regarding, rules and story. But hey whatever. Actualy reading the descriptions of what type of runs you guys like, they seem to in and of themselves contradict each other. We want a run that hey no one else in their right mind will take because its suicide, but this team here we know will come out alive. How hard can one of those missions be in all honesty if the teams expected to come back alive? Oh and the Shadow: The Running comment. Witty, realy witty, yet i don't know. it doesn't seem to fit at all? Should we call all systems that use the D20 system <letter>&<letter> after D&D? Comments like that sound completely rediculouse. Do people not understand that the dice system does not make what a game is? Or is that all people understand? Story, plot, background, is what makes a gaming universe, not what you roll. Hell you can play shadowrun using GURPS for christ sakes, just because you're using a different dice system doesn't mean you're not playing shadowrun. You know what makes shadowrun Shadowrun? The megacorps, the crash of 29, VITAS, goblinization, The big D, Laughing Man, Fast Jack, Capt. Chaos. Not some silly dice system. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 18 2005, 11:33 PM
Post
#263
|
|||||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Actually, it was intended as a joke, not a serious point. Realistically, I doubt I'll see a character have to worry about a -10. Oh, and the event in question is based on something in one of my games. The character made the save with ease. Edit: Just looked it up. They had a TN of 15 and five dice to roll.
They're a team of highly skilled mercenaries. The average run involves breaking into a corporation, stealing their most valuable prototype, assassinating the scientists who made it, downloading and then erasing all of the data on it, and getting back out alive. They also do the occasional run of random property theft into Aztlan, as well as the occasional rescue of people who get chased into the Yucaton. Last I checked, the other DM had Aztechnology put a bounty out on their heads.
Actually, someone tried to make that point once. WotC released a d20 version of Call of Cthulhu a few years back. Most of the players who played it commented that it did not have the same feel to it as BRP does. Unfortunately, a dice system often does determine a game. Most of the time, the dice affect how the game feels to the players as well as the story. That's why most d20 games involve the players as heros, most WW games involve the players as monsters of some sort, and why BRP is most famous for Cthulhu. It's not something that can be easily explained and is certainly not logical, but I never saw anything that said everything in life has to be. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Aug 18 2005, 11:49 PM
Post
#264
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
Nearly unconsiouse and nearly dead, yet manages to leap out the window grab hold while the explosion rushes out, and hold on so he doesn't fall 50 stories? And he made that easy? Right not going to touch that.
As for the second point, you missed my point. But whatever. You're right the WotC released a Call of Cuthulu game. They've also released 'oriental adventures' more commonly known as L5R, but in a d20 setting. The issue with the D20 system is its far too bogged down in things. But, I very much encourage you, if you don't like the feel, don't play the game. The game is what you make of it in all honesty. You could very well be right, the new system could very much feel different, and people like yourself probably won't like it. In all honesty though, it still wouldn't make it Shadow: the running. The D20 system does not most of the time put the pc's in the hero position. It certainly tries to but theres nothing in any of the stories that forces them that way. If you look at most of the things typical PC's do? They're not heroic at all. Afterall your D&D group could be 'workign for the greater good' but all still be evil. The White wolf systems mainly focusing on you being a monster? No I wouldn't say so. Exalted doesn't make you play a monster. Heck the main book you're the solars, the hero's of old reincarnated, champions of the unconqured sun! Aberant you're superhero's. the WoD with its -SETTING- makes you out to be monsters. No its not mainly the dice. Setting atmostphere and all that play a larger part. The dice system white wolf uses is streamlined, not to realy get in the way. Its there to enhance the setting. Whereas your D20 system more of controls the setting and slows things down. Systems either enhance or detract from the setting. The white wolf system was built to enhance the universes it was to support. The current (3rd ed) system for shadowrun I think detracts with how it slows combat down with the wonderful calculating of tn's. But hey thats just my opinion ofcourse |
|
|
|
|
Aug 18 2005, 11:54 PM
Post
#265
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
What I want to know is where you got the idea he jumped out the window.
As for the rest: Dun feel like continuing it. We're straying too far from the topic. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 19 2005, 12:08 AM
Post
#266
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 14-April 05 Member No.: 7,331 |
Has it been pointed out yet that the Weapons Specialist is in fact a Techie? Okay they have put some rubbish into the fluff text. I would think it obvious that she is not a master of unarmed combat and nowhere near 'equally skilled in builinding and repairing weapons' blah blah blah. It is obvious that her focus is much more in the B/R side of things, at least I am presuming that's what Armorer is and she does have it at 5!
She's not supposed to be a sammie. She's a support character type. Major problem I have with the description to the stats, apart from the master unarmed rubbish, is the fact that she has someone as a contact who can get her tech, but no Etiquette skill ;) Of course getting hold of things rules might have changed a lot. Like it might make more sense and if you are asking someone to get you something _they_ roll :) |
|
|
|
|
Aug 19 2005, 08:54 AM
Post
#267
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
sounds reasonable. ie, the expert may allso be called a gun/weapons nut :P
far from just having the soldiers basic knowhow about how to shoot, reload and do basic cleaning and parts replacement. this is a person that know hvor the gun works at its most basic level. but far from being a weapons smith this person allso knows a bit about using said weapons i a fight. maybe not so much as a sammie but enough to deal with gang members and maybe a rent-a-cop if she manages to surprise him. while the sammie will phone his fixer to get hold of new ammo the weapons expert most likely have the tools and knowhow to make her own. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 19 2005, 01:55 PM
Post
#268
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
Gets better. Take a look at her equipment. She's spending an awful lot of money for someone who doesn't have any cyber. She has an "armorer's facility". ( probably 100,000 ) That has to be expensive. Her weapons ran the enitre gamut and in many cases are completely redundant. A bow and a crossbow? Throwing knives and shuriken? Two Katanas and a combat axe? She's more of a weapon generalist than a weapon specialist. She'd make a great contact, but a pretty mediocre runner. For a more reasonable runner, I'd expand the mercenary side of her nature. Reduce Armorer to what she'd need to make field repairs on equipment, and lose the armorer's facility. ( Being tied to an expensive piece of property isn't wise anyway for a runner who might have enemies looking for her ) Then improve heavy weapons and demolitions. For thrown weapons specialize in grenades. Throw in ettiquette, stealth, athletics, and biotech specialized in first aid. ( Stealth is particularly important ) Lose archery. If any room remains pick up electronics specialized in security systems. I can barely tell what sort of firearms since the sample character sheet lists the name of the weapon and not much on the function. she carries but she'll need...... Panther cannon or Rocket launcher ( scoped ) Some grenades ( flash + fragementation ) Sniper rifle ( scoped ) Pistol (smartlinked ) Assault Rifle ( smartlinked ) with grenade launcher Some good military grade explosives. This character may not be able to stand up against a wired sammie in a straight up fight but if she plays it smart, she'll see him first and shoot first. And given her weapons he won't be shooting back. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 19 2005, 02:35 PM
Post
#269
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
can you even scope a rocket launcher or a panther?
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 19 2005, 02:38 PM
Post
#270
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 639 Joined: 22-April 02 Member No.: 2,638 |
She's a weapons specialist (someone that is equally proficient in all kinds of weapons), not a weapon specialist (someone this is exceptionally skilled with one weapon).
Sample characters are really only designed for beginners to use. They are simple, one-dimensional characters, devoid of any gear that uses complex rules or min/max 'power combos' that would confuse newbie players. Given how veteran SR players are typically dissatisfied with the sample characters included in every edition of the BBB, I wonder if there might not be a market for a book of min/maxed and 'prime runner'-type character sheets? |
|
|
|
|
Aug 19 2005, 02:55 PM
Post
#271
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
Given the extreme range capabilities of a rocket launcher or panther cannon then yes I think you can scope them.
The changes I suggested actually made her less of a min-maxer as I give her a bunch of new skills that would prove useful. This character's problem is that her main skill, armorer, and main expense, armorer's facility, are not assets that would come up very often if at all during a run. Even a beginner player might scoff at that when the other players get to use their main skill during the run. ( Such as the Combat Mage's spellcasting and they don't) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 19 2005, 03:07 PM
Post
#272
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 19-March 03 From: Central IL Member No.: 4,278 |
Oh and the Shadow: The Running comment. Witty, realy witty, yet i don't know. it doesn't seem to fit at all? Should we call all systems that use the D20 system <letter>&<letter> after D&D? Comments like that sound completely rediculouse. Do people not understand that the dice system does not make what a game is? Or is that all people understand? Story, plot, background, is what makes a gaming universe, not what you roll. Hell you can play shadowrun using GURPS for christ sakes, just because you're using a different dice system doesn't mean you're not playing shadowrun. You know what makes shadowrun Shadowrun? The megacorps, the crash of 29, VITAS, goblinization, The big D, Laughing Man, Fast Jack, Capt. Chaos. Not some silly dice system.
I don't post much anymore, as I personally feel many posters are just out to be negative. But I just want to say "Right on man!" WHile the rules are a huge part of the game, they fall a distant second to the setting IMO. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 19 2005, 03:18 PM
Post
#273
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
You're entitled to your opinion. It just happens to be wrong.
(I kid, I kid. I just happen to disagree with you.) ~J |
|
|
|
|
Aug 19 2005, 04:42 PM
Post
#274
|
|||
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
yes logicaly they are scopeable in real life. but i was wondering if they in SR can have a top mount. i cant look it up at the moment... |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 19 2005, 05:56 PM
Post
#275
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
Since the launcher or panther cannon would likely be fired from by a person after they placed it over their shoulder, I imagine the scope would be attached to the side of the weapon. It also might not be a scope in the classical long cylinder sense. It might a see-through flap than extends outward over a person's eye as they hold the panther cannon or rocket launcher on their shoulder. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 5th January 2025 - 01:12 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.