 New Update!, SR4 Sample Char: Weapon Specialist |
  |
 Aug 17 2005, 01:26 PM
Post
#76
|
|||
|
Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263  |
Weak as in below average. P.S. Just because your momma can carry 3 Big Macs back to her table without having to stop to catch her breath and without spilling any of her supersized fries doesn't mean she's S 3, A 3. 8) |
||
 |
 
|
||
|
Aug 17 2005, 01:31 PM
Post
#77
|
|||||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Hey, lets not get into the yo mamma stuff this early. Perhaps pedestrians are equally lower level. And who is to say that 3 is not "high average" in this setup? |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Aug 17 2005, 01:38 PM
Post
#78
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Hey, i'm sure it's late somewhere. :P Besides, he brought his momma into this, not me. *points finger* ;)
I think calling it "average" is probably very misleading. More like an average of the highest attribute of an average person. If not 1 and 2 would have to be as nearly as rare as 4 and 5. So it is more like the "average high". So someone with all "average" attributes of 3 is actually mildly exceptional. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Aug 17 2005, 01:41 PM
Post
#79
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Yeah, I'm down with that.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 01:59 PM
Post
#80
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
1) Excellent picture. I hope the other 15 have the same quality.
2) There's a lot of clever analysis in this thread. 3) I consider this character a rough equivalent of SR3's Weapon Specialist: a good number of skills, good gear and lots of room to grow. It's not the scariest combat monster I've seen so far (a friend's adept takes the cake so far), but it's quite versatile. 4) She's one lucky gal. ;) |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 02:29 PM
Post
#81
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Regarding the language - Arabic - N
If it is native language then they got her ethnicity down pat. Very well drawn. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 02:52 PM
Post
#82
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I think that´s safe to assume. And yeah, it´s impressive.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 02:57 PM
Post
#83
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 312 Joined: 9-October 02 Member No.: 3,430 |
Ok i don't care what i've said in the past, but I'm a little stoked about this.
I just spoke to one of my players/gm's and we can now definitely admit that after seeing the character sheet and the sample character we are intrigued. Having the book in hand for about a week will definitely help though. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 02:58 PM
Post
#84
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
This power level would have fitted very well with how I used to play Shadowrun. SR3 used to give my players so much to play with at char gen, they wouldn´t know what to do with it. Then when we started playing my scenarios would be midrange, and they would be overqualified. I never adjusted well to the power increase from 2:nd edition to 3:rd. For my next campain I´m going to start of with street level and let the players work their way to the top. We never played often enough for my players to actually become as professional as their characters were supposed to be. We will all have more fun if there´s room for mistakes for a while so they may learn from them.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 03:08 PM
Post
#85
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 293 Joined: 27-January 03 From: Kentucky, USA Member No.: 3,958 |
I just don't get you people sometimes.
This is a Jack-Of-All-Trades character (as far as combat goes)... and you're pissed because she's average at everything?! Of course she's average! She's not specializing in anything, she's trying to be capable of using any weapon under the sun! She's not going to be an expert at anything that way. :huh: |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 03:14 PM
Post
#86
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 28-March 05 From: NA/UCAS/IN/ Member No.: 7,246 |
Just looking at the Knowledge skill points, it occurs to me that perhaps this is the way it is: Skills cost point for point for first 2 levels, point for point +1 for levels 3-4, perhaps point for point +2 for levels 5-6.
Or maybe I'm just wrong. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 03:28 PM
Post
#87
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Los Coronados | San Ysidro CA Member No.: 106 |
I admit I'm intrigued, and after reading everyone's comments herein (especially Ellery's analysis a few pages ago) I have to say ... "yep, they finally get their street game". Seriously, FanPro US has been saying for quite a while now that they never liked the truly "Epic" or "Powermonger" gaming and have been looking for a way to downpower literally everything.
After doing some reverse-engineering of mine own, I am want to wait to see the other archetypes that are pre-generated as well as the book to create one/two of mine own. If I'm right, then the 123 to 145 BP characters we used to start with here would be the rough equivalent to a 650-700 BP character using the SR4 rules. There were two things I am curious about and definitely want to know more: 1) "Initiative Pass : 1" 2) Contacts with Ratings. I know they used to have them before but the idea of always writing the ratings down next to the contacts would be a serious improvement over the older contact management suggestions that were ever made. Side Comment : Someone suggested "Net Successes"... I'm not sure we should make that assumption. I remember seeing the term "hits" and thinking to myself "they've adjusted the staging rules". And if you consider threshold rules, then a singular value instead of a net-success value would make for considerable sense. It would also alleviate one of the problems in the game with regards to damage resistance ... "I got 3 successes, I can't believe the third one means nothing". |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 03:35 PM
Post
#88
|
|||
|
Harlequin Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 331 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 861 |
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2005, 03:40 PM
Post
#89
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
EDIT: Bad blakkie, must use correct terminology. Rolling a 5 or 6 is now a "hit", not a "success".
NeoJudas, some of that stuff we know about from Origins: 1) Without any 'ware enhancements, possible magic enhancements, a character only ever gets one Initiative pass per Initiative roll. At the start of the turn (not sure if that is correct terminology) everyone rolls their Init dice. They then all act in order of the most hits to the least hits (the TOC mentions that you can Glitch an Init roll *gulp*). Second pass actions are only available to those with enhancements that grant them, the number of extra actions being fixed for a given 'ware (magic) combination. 2) Since there are now 2 numbers associated with a contact, and they likely come more into play as to what the contact can and will do for you, this makes even more sense. Not that i haven't always written the level of the contact down next to the contact anyway. Side Comment) Attack rolls are opposed rolls, which means the target also rolls some dice. The threshhold is how many hits the target rolled to be successful. Extra hits do an extra box of damage each. Yes it is good that the divide by 2 doesn't eat hits here. But it sounds like they didn't get rid of the issue of round-off waste everywhere, particularly in the magic system. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 03:41 PM
Post
#90
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 689 Joined: 16-September 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 5,623 |
Hate to ask this but "Threshold" rules? Did I miss this in 3rd edition or is this something completely new for 4th? If it is addressed in another thread please point me in that direction.
Thank you |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 03:44 PM
Post
#91
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
There were some spells in SR3 that had a Threshhold. You have to get at least, well they are now called "hits", to be successful at the task. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2005, 03:49 PM
Post
#92
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Actually, if she were a jack-of-all-trades character, she'd have something to allow her to hack as well. She's a character that specifically specializes in weapons. Thus, why she's called a weapons specialist. The thing that gets me is that, as a weapons specialist, she's below par. To be honest, my players are used to a game where they have professional skills. Their characters usually have professional training in their background and they take on the types of jobs where you need a 6 in your specialty to survive. They play around with the big boys and they know they could easily get hurt. Now, as it stands, I'll have to get this book and write up a special priority-system version of chargen with adjustments for power level. Otherwise, we're going to have to abandon our entire style of playing just because FanPro got their panties in a twist over something that really wasn't a problem. No insult intended to individuals, of course. Just a disgruntled player realizing he's being screwed over in some way by yet another gaming company when it comes to his games. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2005, 04:09 PM
Post
#93
|
|||||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I think you are too hung up on SR3 numbers. This is a different system with different balances as far as I can tell. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Aug 17 2005, 04:10 PM
Post
#94
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
No, all you really have to do is up the starting build points. And we're all well aware that different groups have different play levels. Some are street, some are professional, some are epic. But it's easiest to start with the basis of street and add on if you play higher levels than it is for someone who wants to play street-level to have to water down all the FanPro provided material. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2005, 04:19 PM
Post
#95
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Actually, I'm looking at this current system. It's really pretty much reusing SR3 numbers, only it's making the higher numbers less prevalent and making stats a bit more important. In the end, it ends up with the same numbers and same system of challenge with only an increase in the actual number. So, it's successes made instead of a number rolled. Realistically, that's only a change when you realize how easily it is to screw over players and how much will stay the same. As for a priority system: I'm making one for my newer players, who cannot get the hang of the SR3 BP system and are looking at the requirements for this one as though they just ended up in one of the lowest levels of Hell. The less number-savey people are also getting screwed over, simply because the system automatically discriminates against them and forces them to look towards other systems. Basically put, I'm having to make adjustments to the game and the damned thing isn't even out yet.
I never found it to be an issue. But, in this case, I'll yield the point simply because I don't have enough experience with a street style that starts out as pure street. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Aug 17 2005, 04:25 PM
Post
#96
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
That's a bit of a reach. First, rules don't really discriminate against people. The FUDGE system isn't simpler because it wants to be less discriminatory against the math-challenged. I mean, I guess you could say that SR4 is also discriminatory against the less reading-savvy, since it has more pages. Second, if anything, the SR4 rules, overall, are less math-intensive than the SR3 rules, so it should be friendlier to the less number-savvy. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2005, 04:25 PM
Post
#97
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 8-October 02 Member No.: 3,425 |
The stats are lower compared with the priority b based third edition weapons specialist. The only point i would like to make is that i am liking what i see if it reduces what a munchin min/max player can easily create with the old rules.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 04:36 PM
Post
#98
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The thing that gets my goat is the gear. First item, actually—"we're gonna be kewl and call the OS a random Japanese word, even if it makes no sense!"
~J |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2005, 04:36 PM
Post
#99
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
"Less number savvy" is a nice way of saying "can't deal with large numbers or more complicated bits of math without a calculator and gets frequent headaches while doing that." The system they are using now is a bit more complicated than the old SR3 BP system (I had most of that sucker memorized on my second use of it), as we have already seen from the math on here just trying to figure out the costs of stats and skills. Take a look at what Ellery and myself did with the sample sheet. In that case, you have to do more math with the results both of us came up with than you did under SR3 BP. In SR3 BP, all you had to do was multiply stat totals by two and occasionally consult a table. One more multiplication and you were done. In this case, you have potential variable costs in stats or potential multiplication, definite variable costs in skills, multiplication in how much money you end up with, and you even have to keep track of how many points you spend on your contacts. That's not a simple or intuitive system. And, yes, it does require more math. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2005, 04:38 PM
Post
#100
|
|
|
Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
With that it mind, anyone heard mention of an SR4 character generator?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 22nd December 2024 - 06:46 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.