Converting SR3 Characters Options

[booklord]

For the group I currently GM for we've got the following characters.....


Japanese Human Yakuza Bodyguard ( disgraced ) with a lot of reaction cyberware and a big ship on his shoulder. A profession killer, he has turned to the shadows to make money for his family since following his "disgrace" the Yakuza would sooner kill him (and his family) than hire him.

German Human Moon Maiden Shaman ( non-initiate ) with strong "rock&roll" music skills and a tendency to be flamboyant. Has to keep to the shadows though because her father a wealthy meat baron from Westphalia is looking for her. She's quite young, barely above a teenager.

Fox Shapeshifter Wujen ( Low level Initiate ). Refugees from China with his "father" (adopted) who is a medium level initiate wujen, but has been suffering from physical ailments of late ( related to the details of how they became refugees ) and is dependent on the character.

Ork Combat Decker from the Ork Underground of Seattle. Only goes for low detectable cyberware. ( Does NOT use a cranial or implanted cyberdeck ) Possibly the most well-adjusted of the group. Currently the group leader as none of the others are remotely qualified for the position. Plenty of contacts and the best social skills of the group


Which will provide the BIG headaches for converting to SR4?

[Jrayjoker]

I don't think anyone can give you a good answer with the information we have now. They have promised to post a conversion method on the srrpg.com site.

[Sabosect]

From what I've seen? All of them.

[Jrayjoker]

[Ellery]

I don't think "conversion" is the right way to think of it.

Think of it as creating new characters that are inspired by the old ones, same as you'd do if you were trying to make the same characters in d20 or whatever.

I don't really know what they're planning on saying in the conversion guide, at least not if it's supposed to work. The best think I can think of would be to convert a SR3 character to SR4 build points, and then rebuild. I suppose I can imagine rules for doing that.

[booklord]

I was leaning in the direction of the shapeshifter Wujen low level initiate.

I'll bet that there are no rules in SR4 for
1) Shapeshifter characters
2) Wujens
3) Metamagic

So I'll have to take from the SR3 Sourcebooks and figure out the most reasonable way to translate those rules to the new rules.

But the Ork Combat Decker may be problematic too. Since he'll have undergone the most changes as all his equipment is about to become obsolete and the technology will have changed.

I'll also need the players to come up with a story for the five year missing span in their lives. ( Or perhaps I'll do it for them ) Some of them have enemies and ongoing plots. ( The moon maiden shaman in particular has an enemy who needs to deliver her to her husband-to-be within the next game year ) I've considered just running the game five years in SR4's past, but have discounted it. I'd like to see how the players handle this brave, new shadowrun world.

[Ellery]

My sense of the new magic system is that differences between traditions have been changed to being minor flavor rather than a major part of the system. You should have no trouble calling the generic magician a Wujen and sprinkling your own flavor on it while waiting for the official flavor. Shapeshfiters--probably not in yet. Metamagic--in, but short. May or may not have what you're looking for. May or may not be comparable.

[Kesh]

Easiest answer: pick a moderate build point (higher than default characters get) and give the players an option of 1) building a new character and retiring their old one; or 2) re-building their character using the new rules, and explaining new/altered equipment in their back-story during the 5 year period.

As for your original point, I think the Shapeshifter will be the toughest, unless the Qualities section has enough information to build the race properly. Wu Jen will be another magical tradition, and the rules for making your own tradition will be in the book.

The rest look pretty easy to port over, aside from replacing their equipment/cyber with modern upgrades, and picking the Moon Maiden shaman's spell list.

[Toa]

Actually I wonder how I'll be able to convert some of my characters, too. Take my orc sam for example:

Bod 6(7) (+3 for damage resistance)
Qui 5(9)
Str 8(12)
Cha 3
Int 5
Wil 4

I don't think I'll be able to convert those attributes 1:1 - else converted SR3 characters would kick a lot of SR4 butts.

[Cain]

[Doc Byte]

Considering all I've read so far, it seems to me as if I my beloved character will survive SR 4. I was afraid that I couldn't play my little nearly-cyber-burned-out Odin shaman with just enough init grade to be a less than average mage. And best of it: It seems as if I all I need comes along with the new BBB. My only fear's that he might get to strong. After all there are 300 Karma points and about a million Nuyen to spend after recreating him. I'll have to wait and see how the new balance of Essence loss and magic attribute will work. Right now it's:

B: 4(7)
Q: 6
S: 6
C: 4
I: 5
W: 5

Magic: 5
Essence: 4
Bio Index: 3,65

Ini: 3W6+6

Init Grad: 4

[Wireknight]

Your character's Essence of 4.0 and Bio Index(SR3) of 3.65 should result in an SR4 Essence statistic of around 2.2 (which is 2 as far as its impact on Magic goes), and a consequent reduction of 4 points from any Magic statistic he might have. In order to have his Magic of 5, he'll have to be at least a Grade 3 Initiate (to raise his maximum Magic from 2 to 5) and he'll need to raise his Magic statistic to 9(which, reduced by 4 due to Essence loss, results in a 5). It'll be pretty costly, but it's doable.

[Kagetenshi]

Riggers were on a completely different power scale during SR3, so I shudder to think what a straight conversion of Alex would give.

Then again, if the vehicle rules have been sufficiently raped that may "balance" things out.

~J

[Doc Byte]

@Wireknight

Yes, but there are some changes in Essence costs as well:


Muscle Augmentation 2 ( cultured )
Muscle Toner 2 ( cultured )
Synthacardium 2 ( cultured )
Enhanced Articulation
Nephritic Screen (spelling?)
Synaptic Accelerator 1
Trauma Damper
Calcitonin

---

Cybereyes with: Infrared, Low Light, Range Finder, Eyelight System, Optical Vision Enhancement 3 ( Beta )
Audio Damper ( Beta )
Boostered Reflexes 1 ( Alpha )
Spur / Lv. 2 Weapon Focus ( Alpha )
Smartlink II with 2nd pad ( Beta )
Plastic Bone Lacing ( Alpha )
Dermal Armor 1 ( Beta )

[Derek]

Geez.

I wonder how long it is going to take everyone to realize that you can't really convert characters directly over. The scale of skills and attributes is different enough that it will end up wrong.

The best (and really only) way to fairly do it is to recreate the characters from scratch, with an increased number of build points, utilizing the same basic concept as the previous character.

This will, of course, require that players don't attempt to min/max everything and take advantage of having a high number of build points, and will require that the GM monitor this to make sure veryone is playing fair. Which shouldn't be a problem for most groups.

Of course, I forget that we are talking about gamers, and there's always bound to be one or two amongst the crowd that thinks you can "win" at a game by being better than everyone else...

::sigh::

Derek

[Doc Byte]

[Wireknight]

I agree completely, but I'll at least help out as best I can with those who are dead set on the path of conversion rather than rebuilding. Just remember, folks, pick up a katana and get your character hooked on amphetamines, so that they don't stand out too much.

And Doc, as far as cyberware Essence costs go, I don't think enough of the ones you listed cost sufficiently less or more that your character will end up with an Essence outside of the 2.01-2.99 range that'd equate to 2.

[Doc Byte]

[Ellery]

SR1, SR2, and SR3 used fairly similar dice mechanics. SR4 is a dramatic departure from all of them. That makes conversion especially difficult.

[Wireknight]

Yeah, even with a 1:1 conversion, your character will end up rolling more base dice (since they'll be adding their linked attribute to their skill), but will also be facing die number reductions rather than TN# differences, and a uniform TN# of 5. They won't work the same as they did in SR3. Not much works the same, mechanically.

[Doc Byte]

Fortunately I play a character and not a collection of statistics. I'm regular playing a scaled down version of my char, for most GMs don't like "high Karma" chars. I'm carrying all sorts of Karma level versions around with me. You should see the GMs' faces at conventions. :eek: :rotfl:

[tisoz]

Here is a comparison of the Corporate Security Guard from MJLBB and the one from SR4.

MJLBB: B5 Q4 S4 I3 W3 C2 Ess4.15 R3 PR3
Init 3+2D6
Combat Pool 5 (3w/security armor) Karma pool 3
Athletics 3, clubs 3, computer 2, etiquette 2 (corp 3), interrogation 3, leadership 3, pistols 4, SMG 2, unarmed 4
[corporation] history 3, [installation] layout 3, corporate law 2, matrix games 3, psychology2, security systems 3, tactics 4
Boosted reflexes 1, headware radio 3, smartlink 2, subvocal microphone

SR4: B3 A3 R4 S3 C3 I3 L2 W3 Ess6 Init7 Initiative Passes1 Condition Monitor10
Dodge 2, Pistols 1, shortarms 3, unarmed 2

[blakkie]

Guesses at conversion methods:

For natural attributes a 2:3 ratio of SR4:SR3 shoud do the trick. So an SR3 '6' becomes an SR4 '4'. Although you'd have to tweak the round-offs a bit to make sure that they don't go too much one way or another.

Another issue what to set the new attributes of Agility, Reaction, Intuition, and Logic at. Maybe you'll have to do an interpretation of what Dex and Int ment in your old character and have the ratios at 1:2 and 1:1 for the weak and strong attributes of the pairs, respectively. Or if they are evenly important to the PC's concept just set both at 2:3.

Edge, i'll boldly throw out, errr 1 for 1-3 KP, 2 for 4-6 KP, 3 for 6-11 KP, 4 for 12-18 KP, 5 for 18-25 KP, and 6 for 26-40 KP, and 7 for 41+ KP (taking Lucky Quality). Then +1 if it is a human. This is based on a GMing style that had a lot of KP built up, more generous Edge for games where KP were very rarely seen in the double digits.

The skills are going to be more problematic, but i'd give serious consideration to subtracting the new attribute linked to the new skill from the old skill value. The result is what should roughly be assigned to the skill. Some skill are gone (Centering), some merged (for example in the area of Firearms), and some split (Conjuring has become the group) and some new (Dodge). The magic skills were split was done roughly down the only specialize lines, so that should be easy enough. I'd give a first try of basing Dodge roughly on Combat Pool, so old CP - new Reaction - a point or two = new Dodge? Firearms just assign a Specialization on the new skill(s) that suits the relative levels of the old Skills. Centering? *shrug* Discard and put it towards goodwill credit with the GM when tweaking at the end.

Adding the cyberware/bioware at this point will hopefully get you close. Not sure since some of the 'ware may have changed function and maybe essense enough to rethink a few of the pieces.

Hopefully at that point adding Initiate grades will then have it work out, although it sounds like grades over 3 or 4 might be out of scale. Adept powers should translate fairly easy here, unless you have a power that isn't in the new BBB and you should be able to home-roll replacements for those.

The spell list should come across fine outside of custom spells and some supplemental book spells. Those you'll have to home-roll conversions in the spirit what changed in similar spells that are already converted from SR3 to SR4. But if you have a lot at low Force you might want to tweak down the Grade or cull some spells.

Metamagic outside the few in the SR4 BBB are going to be problematic. SR4 metamagics are not suppose to create new Skills to train in, just use one of the existing 6 if a magical skill needs to be base of it. You can see how this change Centering, that might give some ideas for conversion. But i suspect you'll need some imaginative thought to.

Give Shamans a free Mentor Spirit Quality. Anything outside of traditional Hermetic or Shaman you are going to have to try figure out their custom spirit catagory(s). Some will be obvious, some less so.

As for gear, i wouldn't convert to cash and then allow purchases with the same amount of cash. Prices for somethings have dropped, i'd just go through and try to find the same or similar use equipment in the same power range. Foci i have no idea about yet, haven't seen any rules on them. For custom weapons and vehicles just make something based off a stock vehicle in it's body type (remember in SR4 low handling bad, high handling good).

Give the PC a commlink appropriate to general financial station in life.

Old Decker gear, progs, and Skills i have no idea about.

Otaku? Sorry, that PC was killed in mayhem of the 2nd Crash. ;)

Then apply liberal amounts of player negotiations and GM fiat to polish and ensure the scale to other PCs in the team.

[Ellery]

Cyberware has gotten so much cheaper that corporate security guards don't use it any more? That's peculiar.

[blakkie]

Except for the Boosted Reflexes 1, that 'ware's functionality is likely covered by PAN enabled gear. Cyberware might be cheaper but no surgery up front and being able to easily take gear back when you downsize the slacker's azz is even cheaper.

EDIT: This might represent another step away from the 80's Japancorp and towards a more contemporary business model. Less employees for life and quicker to gut payroll or or turn over staff ('restructure') when profits fail to rise quickly enough.