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> "What is SR4" Demo, My booth demo in text format
Bull
post Aug 20 2005, 07:24 AM
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Done this a dozen times in two days, I have my "speech" down pretty good, so here's a text version of it. It's very stream of consciousness, and very much how I was speaking during the demo's. And you may note I was mostly just following the "list of changes" checklist and expanding and explaining the items in it.

Hi, I'm Bull, and I'll be your GM this evening. First things first... Are you all familiar with the basic Shadowrun setting? Good, this makes my life a lot easier, as it saves me an hour long "This is the world of Shadowrun" spiel. Ok, i'll start things off by going over the major changes to the system.

First off, dice pools as you knew them are gone. Combat, Astral, Hacking, Rigging, Karma Pools, all gone. The core mechanic now is skill plus attribute, plus or minus any modifiers in dice, and that is now referred to as your dice pool for the test.

Your target number is always 5, and this is called a Hit. Modifers add or subtract dice from your dice pool rather than modifying your target number.

The Rule of One is triggered more frequently now. I don't know about you guys, but I've been playing Shadowrun for umpteen years now, and the Rule of One has come up a grand total of three times in all the games I've run or played in, and one of those three was because the player was only rolling two dice to start with. Since we're evil and like to screw with the players, we decided that the rule of one should come up more often.

So the Rule of One is now called a Glitch. If at least half your are ones, that's a glitch. there are two types of glitches. If you glitch but still roll any hits, it's a minor glitch, and some minor negative thing happens. It's a setback, but not a major negative thing, and you can still succeed at whatever test you were rolling. For example, if I was shooting at someone and rolling 8 dice, and I got four 1's and 3 hits, I could still hit my target and wound or kill him, but something happens to me, like I stumble and have a point or two penalty to my next action.

If you gitch and get no successes, that's called a Critical Glitch, and something major catestrophic bad happens. The exact nature of both types of glitch are up to the GM, so bribe you GM well and keep him happy. Candy, Caffeine, Pizza, or Beer work well for this.

The rule of Six no longer applies to your dice rolls, except in a couple situations which I'll get to in a bit. Since you have a set target number of 5, you don't need the open ended dice to get higher target numbers.

Open tests no longer exist. These were tests like with stealth, where you'd roll and your highest die roll would become the opponents target number. This type of test was always more than a little wonky and could be extremely random, and we hated it, so we chuked it.

There are now three types of tests: Opposed Tests, Threshold tests, and Extended tests.

Opposed tests are your standard My Dice vs Their Dice tests, with you wanting to get more hits than your oppoenent or whatever is resisting you.

Threshold tests are generally unopposed type of tests where you're simply trying to succeed at an action. Things like climbing would be a Threshold test. The GM will give you a threshold of hits that you need to meet or beat to succeed at your test. A threshold of 1-2 is relatively easy, while a threshold of 4-5 is pretty difficult. It's GM fiat as to how difficult a lot of thresholds are, so again, bribes work wonders.

The maximum for skills and attributes before possible metahuman modifiers is 6. There is no longer the Racial Modified Limit of 1.5 your starting max, so 6 is generally as high as they get. It is possible to get a 7 using the Exceptional Attribute or Aptitude Positive Qualities (What used to be Edges). And of course it's possible to exceed these maximums through cyberware, bioware, magic, and the like.

Intelligence has been divided into 2 attributes, Intuition and Logic. This was done primarily because in the past, Perception has always been based on your Intelligence, which just didn't make sense. You can be incredibly smart, but oblivious to your surrounding, and conversely you can be very aware and perceptive, but just not that bright.

Quickness was broken up into two new attributes as well, Agility and Reaction. Agility is your hand-eye coordination, while reaction is your speed.

Initiative is now a derived attribute, Reaction + Intuition, similar to what eaction was in older editions.

Characters no longer have a random number of initiative passes, or actions, per turn. Instead they have a fixed number based on any cyber, gear, or active magic. Normal unmodified metahumans have a single initiative pass, while things like wire reflexes will give an extra initaitive pass or three. So someone with wired reflexes 2 will get 2 additional passes, and will have three actions every turn.

Two new attributes have been added: Edge and Resonance.

Side Step a moment... ***I take a tangent to talk about the Crash 2.0 and the upgraded matrix and a bit about Augmented Reality, hackers, and the new wireless world and how every connects to it*** So something happens with the crash that effectivly "unlocks" Otaku. They are now a little more common, and are no longer the one in a million, urban legand that they once were, they can now grow up and become "real boys", so they no longer lose their powers as they age. They're now called Technomancers, and they have an attribute called Resonance, which is similar to the Magic Rating for a mage or an adept.

Technomancers are neat in that they can hack without the use of hardware, if they need to. their brain is configured to detect Augmented Reality and to connect to other systems wirelessly. They would still use a commlink to store data and the link, but they don't need it for programs or anything.

Technomancers have the ability to create Sprites, whicha re basically temporary matrix constructs that can perform services for them. they're similar to the spirits Shaman's could summon in that they would last forX services or X amount of time before decomiling back into loose code. They are use their Forms like a mage would spells, and suffer temporary Fading when using forms, the way a mage suffers drain from spells.

The other new attribute is Edge, and Edge effectively replaces Karma Pool, though it's a good deal more flexible than Karma Pool was. There was some confusion in earlier demo's, so I should explain that you have both an Edge Attribute and an Edge Pool. WHile your Edge Pool decreases as you spend Edge, your attribute doesn't change, so even if you've spent three Edge points this game session, your Edge Attribute is still 4. There are a bunch of things you can do with Edge.

You can spend a point of edge before you roll to add your edge attribute to the dice pool for the test, If you do, all your dice for the test are Open Ended.

You can spend an edge after you've rolled to roll just your edge dice and add any hits you get to this test. Only these edge dice are open ended, so any original sixes you rolled do not get rerolled. This is useful if you were one hit short of success, or if you find out after the fact you didn't quite have enough dice to succeed at a test.

You can spend a point to reroll all your failures, like you could spend karma pool for under 3rd ed.

If your dice pool is reduced to zero or more due to modifiers, you may make a long shot test, which allows you to roll just your edge dice. These dice are open ended.

You may spend a point of edge to automatically go first in an intiative round. If more than one character spends edge to go first, you then compare initative scores.

You may spend a point of edge to buy an additional initiative pass for the current combat turn.

You may negate the effects of a glitch with a point of edge.

Edge can be extremely powerful, and it now makes it possible for a non cyybered, non magical character to compete with his cyber and magic buddies, if he maxes out his edge attribute.

Edge refreshes like karma pool did, between game sessions or at the end of each adventure. There are also some suggestions for ways to earn edge pool points during play, through things like dazzling the GM with a brilliant move or terrific roleplay, or achieving a major storyline goal. It's GM fiat on these, so again, bribe your GM with fabulous prizes. (I usually got smiles with the GM bribe jokes, which was fun.0

Magic no longer starts at 6. Instead, it's bought up just like any other attribute. You buy a Positive Quality to become a mage or an adept or whatever, and then purchase it up like you would the rest of your attributes. Resonance works the same way.

because the game is more lower powered, bringing mages magic ratings down was one way to keep them in line with the rest of the characters. However, they still have options at their disposal to be pretty nasty in play.\, which I'll cover in a bit. Plus, there have been a couple fiction stories and novels that used the idea of a character "awakening" or discovering that he's magically active after his running career has already started. Because before you automatically got a full load of magic rating adn spell points when you made a mage, you coudlnlt really emulate this

Now you can simply buy the magician quality without buying up the magic attribute or purchasing any spells. Your character has that "spark of magic", but doesn't know he has it. , and can later through game plkay and roleplay "discover" his magical talent and start nurturiing it through karma expenditure and the like.

Bioware and Cyberware both cost essence now, but the lesser of the two counts for half. So if you have 4 points of Bioware, and 2 points of Cyber, it costs you 5 essence total.

Exclusive actions no longer exist.

There are now Skill Groups. There have been a bunch of new skills added to the overall skill list, and many of the more widley used skills were lumped up into Skill groups. Not every skill, hoever, falls into a skill group. Starting active skills are limited to a single 6 *or* two skills at 5, and everything else 4 or less. Skill groups cannot be rasied above 4 at chargen. You cannot buy an individual skill within a skill group up past the Group attribute at chargen, and you can't specialize any skill within the Skill group.

Later on with karma you can break up a skill group and raise an individual skill up. Hoever, once you do you can no longer increase them through karma as a single Skill Group. You have to raise all the lower skills in the group up to the level of the highest individual skill before you can Group them up again.

The condition monitor is no longer fixed at 10 boxes of damage. It is now 8 + 1/2 your Body or WIllpower, for Physical and Stun damage tracks, rounded up. Wound levels, such as Light, Moderate, and Serious, are gone. instead every three boxes of damage gives you a -1 modifier. that's every three full boxes, so the first 2 boxes of damage don't effect you.

All types of combat are now opposed tests.

For melee, the attacker rolls his weapon or unarmed combat skill, plus the appropriate attribute. For defense, you have three options. If you have a weapon and the weapon skill, you can try to parry. If you have unarmed combat, you can try to block, though there may be instances wher ethe GM doesn't allow this. When a troll swings a mono sword at you, blocking with your forearm seems like a bad idea. And finally you can try to dodge the attack. And yes, this means Dodge is now an active skill.

For bullets, it's a little nastier becuase it's hard to didge bullets, espeically if you aren't paying full attention to them. So you don't normally get your didge against ranged combat, though you always get your Reaction dice to resist with, On your turn you can choose to dodge, which allows you to roll Dodge + Reaction for the rest of the turn. A character can also declare a dodge when it's not his turn, though this uses up his next action.

With wound levels gone, weaqpons no longer have a damage level associated with them. An example weapon is the Ares Predator 4, which has a stat line of 5P(-1). What this means is that the weapon has a base Damage Value of 5, the letter is either a P or s, for physical or stun, and the nmber in parenthasis is an armor penetration modifier. The Damage Value of a weapon is the base number of boxes of damage it will do before modifiers.

So an example combat would run like this. I have an Ares predator 4, you have an armor jacket with an armor rating of 8/6I go to shoot you, and I have 4 pistols, and 4 agiility, so I get 8 dice. You defend with just your reaction because you weren't dodge, and roll 3 dice. I get 2 hits you get one, so my shot hits you with one net hit. I add my net hits to my Danage Value to give mea modified Damage Value of 6. My armor penetration of -1 applies to your armor, giving you 7 armor. And this is probably my favorite rules change of 4th ed...

Because my modified DV doesn't beat your modified Armor, the bullet doesn't penetgrate and do physical damage. instead the bullets impacts off the armor and causes bruising damage, possibly a fracted ribs. You still have to resist the full amount of damage, and wound modifiers are just as useful regardless of whether they're phsyical or stun. And an unconscious mook is just as out of the fight as a dead one, so this doesn't make combat less effective.

So anyways, I shoot you for 6 DV. You then get to resist damage using your body plus your modified armor. So say 4 Body + 7 Armor. you get 4 hits, so you reduce the damage down to 2 boxes.

Damage spells work much the same way. Plus you can Overcast magic. Basically, spells don't have a set force anymore when you learn them, instead you simply learn the spell, and when you cast it, youc an choose the force up to double your magic rating. Anything over your magic though will be physical drain rather than stun.

There was one big change to magic, and it's that the lines between the traditions has blurred a bit. At some point in the last 5 years, either due to new techniques or a rising mana level, the two core traditions have learned a few of each others tricks. the net effect of this is that both Hermetics and Shamans can now summon Bound Spirits (What the mage used to summon) and Unbound Spirits (what Shaman;s summoned). You can still only have one unbound spirit at a time, and bound spirikts are limited to i think your Charisma.

However, magicians with Bound Spirits do have a limitation on them. It takes a bit of mental control on the part of the magician for each bound spirit he's controlling to keep them in line. So for each Bound Spirit that he has active (called up and actually being used, not just on reserve),. he suffers a -2 penalty to all tests.

That was about the gist of it, but I'm not exceedingly tired and still slightly buzzed, so while I may have missed a few points, I'm going to bed. If this is informative or helpful, cool, if not, whatever. :)

Bull
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Zen Shooter01
post Aug 20 2005, 07:41 AM
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Thank you very much, Bull. This is a huge improvement over the swirl of rumor, piece-by-piece innuendo, and "I haven't slept for two days and have five minutes to answer 11 questions about a book I've just skimmed before my hotel mates start having sex again."

The saddest thing I've read so far is that the old damage levels are gone. Oh, the memories...of people screaming, "Dead! Dead! Panther Assault Cannon dead! 18D dead!"

I do not like the blurring of the magical traditions at all.

I do like the -2 modifier to everything for an active bound spirit. Although for some reason most players failed to abuse it, the fact was that if you told an Earth Elemental 6 to go into a projects apartment and kill every ganger in there, there was zip point fuck all the average street gang could do to defend itself unless it was lucky enough to have Mana bolt or a window it could jump out of. Elementals were way overpowered.
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Zen Shooter01
post Aug 20 2005, 07:42 AM
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By the way, why does my post above claim that it went up at 7:41 AM? It's 3:41 AM Eastern here in the Orlando ghetto.
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Bandwidthoracle
post Aug 20 2005, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE (Bull)
Technomancers are neat in that they can hack without the use of hardware, if they need to. their brain is configured to detect Augmented Reality and to connect to other systems wirelessly. They would still use a commlink to store data and the link, but they don't need it for programs or anything.

Yes!!! Technomancers aren't magical, they need a wifi card (Equiv)
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hobgoblin
post Aug 20 2005, 09:05 AM
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QUOTE
If your dice pool is reduced to zero or more due to modifiers, you may make a long shot test, which allows you to roll just your edge dice. These dice are open ended.


i could have sworn that this was contradicted in a diffrent thread...
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hobgoblin
post Aug 20 2005, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle)
QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 20 2005, 02:24 AM)
Technomancers are neat in that they can hack without the use of hardware, if they need to.  their brain is configured to detect Augmented Reality and to connect to other systems wirelessly.  They would still use a commlink to store data and the link, but they don't need it for programs or anything.

Yes!!! Technomancers aren't magical, they need a wifi card (Equiv)

but their brain still talks native bluetooth :cyber: :silly:
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mfb
post Aug 20 2005, 09:17 AM
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QUOTE (Bull)
Technomancers are neat in that they can hack without the use of hardware, if they need to. their brain is configured to detect Augmented Reality and to connect to other systems wirelessly. They would still use a commlink to store data and the link, but they don't need it for programs or anything.

this statement confuses me. radio brains, or no radio brains?
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blakkie
post Aug 20 2005, 09:57 AM
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QUOTE (mfb @ Aug 20 2005, 03:17 AM)
QUOTE (Bull)
Technomancers are neat in that they can hack without the use of hardware, if they need to. their brain is configured to detect Augmented Reality and to connect to other systems wirelessly. They would still use a commlink to store data and the link, but they don't need it for programs or anything.

this statement confuses me. radio brains, or no radio brains?

Short range radio brains i think, since Tisoz was able to find formula for the signal power of a Technomancer (Resonance/2). Based on that the highest range is 400m, and i'll assume there are suboptimal conditions where you'd need a signal boost to even make that.

Also i think that means you'd still need a wireless tap to connect to a hardwired system?

EDIT: Note, since it would seem 'trodes provide for brain interface at a distance (albeit a very short distance) this would seem to be sort of like an extension to whatever makes them work.
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blakkie
post Aug 20 2005, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin)
QUOTE
If your dice pool is reduced to zero or more due to modifiers, you may make a long shot test, which allows you to roll just your edge dice. These dice are open ended.


i could have sworn that this was contradicted in a diffrent thread...

Yes, it was.
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Sabosect
post Aug 20 2005, 10:09 AM
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Here's my version:

QUOTE
Ah, yes. Welcome to Fourth Edition, one of the most bitched about editions of a game outside of DnD I have ever seen. Well, I've decided to write this little FAQ for you just for the hell of it. If you don't like this version, you can either ignore it, laugh at it, or step naked in front of a panther cannon-wielding troll and proceed to start insulting his mother.

Okay, let's start with our first idiotic questions: The Dice System.

Q: Is it really still a 6 side system?
A: Nah. They changed it to a 1000 side system. You have to roll dice the size of baseballs. To calculate how much damage you do, you drop the die on your crotch the indicated number of times. How much damage you do is measured by how high pitched your voice gets. The person who sounds like they have been sucking on helium after this automatically kills the enemy.

Q: Okay... How do I know how many dice to roll?
A: Add your skill rating to the appropriate attribute.

Q: Cool! I get to have a character with 16 dice early!
A: That's not a question, moron. And, no, you don't. Attributes are capped at 6, skills 6 with specializations at 7. This will really suck when you meet a hellhound with 29 dice to roll.

Q: A max of 13 dice? Why?
A: Because God hates you.

Q: Oh? Then how does that explain the hellhound?
A: Because I agree with God.

Q: That's not fair! Won't your players rise up against this?
A: Nope. They don't want to be seen disagreeing with God. Oh, and the hellhound just mutated and doubled its dice.

Okay, now for Magic questions:

Q: How about magic?
A: Spend 15 points on magic, raise it like a normal skill. Spells and totems cost extra.

Q: Why the extra on totems?
A: Because being mastered by a dog's ghost takes effort and the dog wants compensation. Apparently, you didn't show him a good enough time last night.

Q: Okay, I'm ignoring that for now. So, I'm looking at the downloads on FanPro. How much do spells cost?
A: 120 points per spell and your immortal soul. Luckily, you get your choice of familiars to suck the life out of you as they grant you the occasional use of a spell.

Q: Say, are we allowed to innitiate, or has that been done away with?
A: Of course you're allowed to innitiate. However, you must defeat Lofwyr using only a toothpick to be allowed to do so, and then you have to pay 900 karma multiplied by the innitiation level to the ninth power.

Q: Say, won't drug addictions possibly affect spellcasting ability?
A: Yep. Now, all mages must be high in order to cast spells.

Now, Matrix questions:

Q: Wow, technomancers. What are they?
A: Ever see the Matrix movies? These are the people who could kick Neo's ass.

Q: Say, what happened to the old Matrix?
A: It had a brief affair with Deus. Then it caught Deus cheating on it with the Internet and, in a fit of rage, built an army of Otaku and tried to take over the world. In the end, the old Matrix and it's otaku army were isolated in California, where a high-yield plothole was fired into. Now you know how California came to be the way it is.

Q: So, how did the new Matrix come to be?
A: It's the love child of Deus and the old Matrix.

Q: What about riggers?
A: Every time you try to play a rigger, God kills a kitten. FanPro got tired of all the dead cats mailed to them. On a side note, want to adopt some kittens?

Miscellaneous questions:

Q: How much nuyen for points?
A: 5000 per 1 point. Max of 50 points spent.

Q: Heh. Did they lower costs?
A: Nope. They raised them drastically. Just buying ammunition requires you to sell yourself to the Mafia as a sex slave.

Q: So, what about contacts?
A: Your character must spend a lot of time standing on street corners to afford those.

Q: What about med equipment?
A: All of it has been eliminated. Now, you just organleg dead group members.

Okay, that's all the time I have for now. More surprises in game.
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Athenor
post Aug 20 2005, 10:12 AM
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You know, it's too late at night to read some farce of an insult thread... *sighs* Especially considering I'm not drunk.
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Sabosect
post Aug 20 2005, 10:14 AM
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Not meant as a farce. I hand out one similar for SR3 as well. I'm just evil like that.

Seriously, good work was done on the original post.
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Bull
post Aug 20 2005, 12:48 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Aug 20 2005, 03:05 AM)
QUOTE
If your dice pool is reduced to zero or more due to modifiers, you may make a long shot test, which allows you to roll just your edge dice. These dice are open ended.


i could have sworn that this was contradicted in a diffrent thread...

Yes, it was.

Yeah, you're right. It was late, i was tired and a little drunk, and the exact effects of edge have gone through a couple hundred revisions since last year in playtesting, so I still get confused on some of the minor details :)

Sorry for the confusion.

And yeah, I know that I repeated a lot of information that's already out there. Fun fact though, it appeared that at least 80% of the folks I demo'd for hadn't even seen the FAQ's on FanPro's site. So most didn't know all this already.

Bull

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nezumi
post Aug 20 2005, 01:46 PM
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Very cute, Sabosect. I laughed out loud.

Thanks a ton, Bull. It's great to see everything put together. You should've written the FAQs. Can you go into the basic Shadowrun setting you skipped over earlier?

(No, no, I'm teasing :P )
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Kerrygold
post Aug 20 2005, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE
Only these edge dice are open ended, so any original sixes you rolled do not get rerolled.


ok, i understand original sixes are not rolled, cause they are already sucesses...
but what means "open ended"?

What does it get you to reroll edge dice "open ended"? If you roll a 6, its already a success... or not?

And Bull, i like your post, so i dont have to reread all posts with cluttered information :)
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JongWK
post Aug 20 2005, 02:35 PM
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Open ended is the Rule of Six. If you roll a six, it's a hit and you get to roll another die. Another reason why high Edge is a Good Thing ™.
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nezumi
post Aug 20 2005, 04:07 PM
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So, for example, you could conceivably roll 4 successes with 1 die (roll a 6, roll a 6, roll a 6, roll a 5). As long as you keep rolling 6's, you keep rerolling.
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JongWK
post Aug 20 2005, 04:27 PM
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Basically, yeah.
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Kerrygold
post Aug 20 2005, 06:11 PM
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thx guys! now its clear...

i think i like the edge attribute :)
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BookWyrm
post Aug 20 2005, 07:33 PM
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Ah, clarity. Truly, 'tis bliss. I hungrilly await SR4.
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booklord
post Aug 21 2005, 02:59 AM
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QUOTE
So the Rule of One is now called a Glitch. If at least half your are ones, that's a glitch. there are two types of glitches. If you glitch but still roll any hits, it's a minor glitch, and some minor negative thing happens. It's a setback, but not a major negative thing, and you can still succeed at whatever test you were rolling. For example, if I was shooting at someone and rolling 8 dice, and I got four 1's and 3 hits, I could still hit my target and wound or kill him, but something happens to me, like I stumble and have a point or two penalty to my next action.


So if you suffer a bunch of negative modifiers and only have 2 dice to use in a test, then if 1 of those dice turns out as a 1 then you get a glitch. The odds of that happening are a little high for my tastes. As such I'd never use it that way. I'm a reasonable GM. Much like with the previous system which was also flawed, I'll see their die rolls and determine for myself if a glitch is appropriate or not. ( Adds a little air of suspense too. Will the GM cause something to happen or not? )

QUOTE
You may spend a point of edge to automatically go first in an intiative round. If more than one character spends edge to go first, you then compare initative scores.


That could easily be abused. I'll have to think long and hard about allowing that one in my games. That may be giving high edge characters too much power. Just giving them the right to go first regardless of what the other rolled on their initiative dice is too absolute. More likely I'll just allow them to add edge dice to their initiative roll.

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There was one big change to magic, and it's that the lines between the traditions has blurred a bit. At some point in the last 5 years, either due to new techniques or a rising mana level, the two core traditions have learned a few of each others tricks. the net effect of this is that both Hermetics and Shamans can now summon Bound Spirits (What the mage used to summon) and Unbound Spirits (what Shaman;s summoned). You can still only have one unbound spirit at a time, and bound spirikts are limited to i think your Charisma.


Can you summon an unbound elemental or a bound nature spirit? Any word of great form spirits? This is a change I do not care for. In my games I will probably limit players to being able to summon one or the other unless I see a substantial reason that requires this. Any word of Loas? They're more of a middle ground spirit.

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However, magicians with Bound Spirits do have a limitation on them. It takes a bit of mental control on the part of the magician for each bound spirit he's controlling to keep them in line. So for each Bound Spirit that he has active (called up and actually being used, not just on reserve),. he suffers a -2 penalty to all tests.


Now That's a MAJOR change. Granted elementals were over-powered. But the cost kept them in line. I'll think about this one. ( Keeping in mind the a -2 penalty is no longer the end all make helpless modifier it often was in SR3 )
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Bull
post Aug 21 2005, 03:51 AM
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Sort of yes and yes to your question, Book.

In the SR4 corebook, spirits are pretty generalized. THere are 6 types of spirits: Fire, Earth, Air< Water, Man, and Beasts. Each Tradition can summon 5 of the 6 (Shamans can't summon Fire, Hermetics can't summon Beasts). These seem to really represent spirit categories that individual spirits fall under now... So a hearth Spirit, City Spirit, and the like all fall under Spirits of Man, and now all have the same stats. Likewise an Air Elemental, Wind Spirit, and a Sky Spirit are all the same.

And I like your honesty Book... It's cool if you as a GM and your group don't like a rule and want to change it. I've even told a few folks who were asking me questions and had concerns that they wouldn't be able to convert their characters over easily, or weren't happy with the Att/Skill caps that hey, if you really want, just remove the caps. It skews things a little, but not terribly.

Not like SR has never had any house rules before, you know? :)

Bull
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Demonseed Elite
post Aug 21 2005, 04:29 AM
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A conjurer does get to select the optional powers each spirit has during the summoning, from a list of optional powers for each spirit type. So one "Air type" spirit might have the Fear critter power while another one might not be able to fear at all, but instead can use Psychokinesis.
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Ellery
post Aug 21 2005, 04:35 AM
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But there's no reason to be a shaman as opposed to a hermetic as opposed to anything else in order to get specific spirit powers, or even to get most types of spirits, right? It's 83% flavor, 17% substance. (The one missing spirit type.)
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Sabosect
post Aug 21 2005, 05:04 AM
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Add in the totem.

Pretty much, I think that sums it up. The totems don't really sound like they are anything special, and by the sounds of things shamans don't even need them. Worse, I would say that shamans get a set of spirits that are not really all that helpful.
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