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> Stats in sr4, what are they
Grifter
post Aug 21 2005, 05:11 AM
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I was looking at the sample character sheets and I noticed a lot more stats than normal, what do they all mean? I haven't been following sr4 to closely till now and I"m completely clueless.

EDIT: What exactly do they do, and have they changed the regular stats at all, like what they affect, and what do the new stats affect.

EDIT2: Does that mean you have to put points into magic just like any other attribute or is it the same as in sr3 where you start at 6 then go up from there with initiations?
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Kagetenshi
post Aug 21 2005, 05:15 AM
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The new ones are Agility, Reaction, Intuition, Logic, and Edge.

~J
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mmu1
post Aug 21 2005, 05:17 AM
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The only differences are that Quickness was split into Agility and Reaction, Intelligence into Intuition and Logic, and an Edge stat was added.

The first two are pretty self-explanatory, and Edge is effectively a Karma pool - you can add a # of dice equal to your Edge to a number of rolls equal to your Edge attribute (IIRC), and also use it to still try to roll on tests where the modifiers reduced your die pool to 0 or less.
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Sabosect
post Aug 21 2005, 05:20 AM
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Magic is also now a stat. It's, AFAIK, the M one.
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mmu1
post Aug 21 2005, 05:22 AM
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QUOTE (Sabosect @ Aug 21 2005, 01:20 AM)
Magic is also now a stat. It's, AFAIK, the M one.

Oh, right. Magic no longer starts equal to Essence, it needs to be bought up like anything else.
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Grifter
post Aug 21 2005, 05:26 AM
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Is magic limited to 6 at the start, and then you have to initiate or can you raise it higher from start?

EDIT: Wow, guess they are trying to get rid of high power chars in the beginning, so no more priority system?
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Sabosect
post Aug 21 2005, 05:32 AM
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Magic is equal to all stats. First point is free, every point except 6 after that costs 10 BP. 6 costs 25. For all stats, including Magic, you may have one 6 or two 5s with the rest being 4s. You can build it up to 6, but no higher.
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blakkie
post Aug 21 2005, 05:58 AM
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QUOTE (Sabosect @ Aug 20 2005, 11:32 PM)
Magic is equal to all stats. First point is free, every point except 6 after that costs 10 BP. 6 costs 25. For all stats, including Magic, you may have one 6 or two 5s with the rest being 4s. You can build it up to 6, but no higher.

I thought tisoz said that was skills only? Well a limit of 6, before racial mods. Other than that Attributes are only limited by a spending max of 50% of your BP.
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Sabosect
post Aug 21 2005, 06:04 AM
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I thought he said those limits existed.
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blakkie
post Aug 21 2005, 06:07 AM
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QUOTE (Sabosect)
I thought he said those limits existed.

I thought so to, but was corrected when i was calculating the maximum BP you could spend on attributes given whatever BP. Not sure where the post is.
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tisoz
post Aug 21 2005, 06:23 AM
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The single 6 or 2 5's concerned skills. Attributes are only capped by the 50% of total BP limit. And that is for physical and mental attributes.
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Sabosect
post Aug 21 2005, 06:34 AM
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Kay. Thanks for the correction. I can imagine how this is going to confuse people for awhile.
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Grifter
post Aug 21 2005, 06:51 AM
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Yeah it's really confusing so far, but hopefully I'll get the hang of it quick enough.


EDIT: So they are definetly using the build point system now instead of the priority system? So I should get used to it before I get a copy?
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hahnsoo
post Aug 21 2005, 06:56 AM
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You can spend up to 50% of your starting build points on your Physical and Mental attributes. Your first point is free (along with any racial mods... for example, Dwarves start with a Willpower of 2 to represent their +1 Willpower mod), and each point above the starting value costs 10 BP each, EXCEPT for the last Maximum attribute point (which costs 25 BP). Purchasing Edge and Magic/Resonance does NOT count for the 50% limit (and several of the archetypes in the book reflect this). Yes, Magic Rating is bought just like any other attribute (which is one reason why being a Mage is so cheap), and so is Resonance (the linked attribute for Technomancer/Otaku powers).

What I'm not clear on is the Extraordinary Attribute positive trait (read: Edge). If you pick that edge, then do you pay 25 BP for the 6, or the 7, or both?
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Bandwidthoracle
post Aug 21 2005, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE (Sabosect)
Kay. Thanks for the correction. I can imagine how this is going to confuse people for awhile.

But are there in game caps?
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the_dunner
post Aug 22 2005, 01:26 AM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo)
What I'm not clear on is the Extraordinary Attribute positive trait (read: Edge). If you pick that edge, then do you pay 25 BP for the 6, or the 7, or both?

It raises the cap, so you pay 10 for the 6, and 25 for the 7.

QUOTE ( Bandwidthoracle @ Aug 21 2005, 01:57 AM)
But are there in game caps?


For skills? Max skill without the aptitude quality is a 6. Max skill with the aptitude quality is a seven. In the skills chapter, Edison, Tesla, and Fastjack are given as examples of someone with a 7 in a technical skill. Keep that in mind. So, you can't advance a skill past 6 or 7 with aptitude. However, if you've got the time and the karma, you can have as many high ranking ones as you can pay for.

For Attributes? The unenhanced Limit without the extraordinary attribute quality is racial maximum. Enhancements (Cyber/Bioware/Magic) allow an attribute to go to 1.5*Racial Maximum. Enhancements which would raise it past that limit do nothing. (e.g. Even with enhancements, a human cannot have a strength higher than 9.)
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Derek
post Aug 22 2005, 01:49 AM
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Bleh. I see me house ruling no caps in game, and making it a progressive buy system. Something along the lines of 55, 10, 10, 15, 15, 20, 20, 25, 25, etc...

I even see something like this coming out in a supplement. I don't mind a bit of math while making a character.

Derek

Edit: I mean for both skills and attributes, although I (obviously) haven't worked out the math, a progressive system is what I would use.
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Sabosect
post Aug 22 2005, 02:06 AM
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5, 5, 10, 10, 10, 25 works out better. Maybe have it increase by 15 every point after that.
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Derek
post Aug 22 2005, 02:32 AM
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I kind of like this

1: 0 0
2: 5 5
3: 10 15
4: 15 30
5: 20 50
6: 25 75
7: 30 105
8: 35 140

Thats for attributes. Read it as Attr:Incremental Cost:Total Cost

I also like progressive costs for skills, but I haven't really figured it out yet.

Also, I'm not going to set here and spend a lot of time defending why one system is better than another, I know whnat I have figured out so far is not perfect, but thats allright.
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Sabosect
post Aug 22 2005, 02:53 AM
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Meh. As long as it works, who cares?
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6thDragon
post Aug 22 2005, 01:14 PM
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Two observations on my part.
First ,humans finally have an attribute they have a bonus on: Edge
However, not all NPCs have the Edge attribute so not all humans get it. It almost reminds me of how second edition treated NPCs. That was one improvement I liked in 3rd edition. Does anyone know if spirits and critters have edge? I assume dragons have it. Are there freespirits in the main book or are we going to have to wait for the supplement or just houserule them until the supplement comes out?
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hahnsoo
post Aug 22 2005, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (6thDragon)
However, not all NPCs have the Edge attribute so not all humans get it. It almost reminds me of how second edition treated NPCs. That was one improvement I liked in 3rd edition.

Well, technically all characters have at least 1 point of Edge. Humans get a bonus +1 to Edge. The only reason the whole "grunt/mook" thing gives an Edge pool for the whole group is for streamlining the gameplay. Some people like it, other people don't. It's simply a way to ease the path for new GMs who don't have the experience to come up with a lot of unique NPCs on the fly.
QUOTE
Does anyone know if spirits and critters have edge?  I assume dragons have it.  Are there freespirits in the main book or are we going to have to wait for the supplement or just houserule them until the supplement comes out?
All critters have Edge (and several points of it, for some of them). Free Spirits aren't in the main book, but you can just use the templates of existing summoned spirits (since free spirits are pretty much the same anyway, albeit with a few extra powers). Edge for spirits equals their Force (ouch).
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blakkie
post Aug 22 2005, 01:32 PM
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I guess pissing off the Denver City free spirit is an even worse idea now?
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Talia Invierno
post Aug 22 2005, 02:14 PM
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Humans always had a bonus to Karma pool, which is what Edge replaces.
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6thDragon
post Aug 22 2005, 03:45 PM
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It looks like we will see the end of all gun-bunnies, street sams, gangers, ect... being geniuses in order to max out their reaction/inititive. :please:
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