 Shadowrun 4: Magic |
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 Oct 3 2005, 03:01 AM
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#301
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398  |
Maybe something like Dragonball Z, where yopu just stand there, building up the magical energy in your hand until you shoot it out. "Ka...me...ha...me...HA!!!!" |
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Oct 3 2005, 03:32 AM
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#302
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
How 'bout no? Someone please play a DBZ-themed mystic adept in my game so I can demonstrate the awesome lethality of aimed called shots and the panther cannon. |
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Oct 3 2005, 04:12 AM
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#303
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
I always preferred a dragon punch myself.
It's a schtick and if magic does manifest in forms familiar to the user, I expect a lot of superheroes and video game adepts would start cropping up, considering our fascination with both mediums. Frag, there should be at least one Sailor Moon mage running around somewhere and a spikey-haired kid muttering to the Pharoh as he throws down card-shaped Foci to invoke his spells. I draw the line at spells taking the form of small, cute animals that then cast the spells, however. :D -Siege |
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Oct 3 2005, 08:37 AM
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#304
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 775 Joined: 31-March 05 From: florida Member No.: 7,273 |
i havent tried anything around DBZ, i dont like the anime, i have however made a Yu Yu Hakusho based character for SR3 that didnt turn out to bad...was a phys mage with a force 6 manabolt spell but only one point in magic, so he could only currently cast it at force one or at most force two without getting a power focus, i only played him in one game but he worked out alright
what about that character concept seige |
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Oct 3 2005, 12:09 PM
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#305
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 16-January 05 Member No.: 6,984 |
Seige, clearly those are just bound spirits. Doesn't quite explain the cap of 6 those, I guess they all just have the same charisma. =P |
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Oct 3 2005, 07:14 PM
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#306
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Once again, I find myself agreeing with Siege. Thematics and schticks are what make magic "comfortable," just like it made custom Matrix icons fun to design. I even had a guy who wanted his character to follow the "Jedi" tradition once; now with SR4 flexbility, maybe he could resist drain with Intuition + Willpower. Cross-genre concepts is one of Shadowrun's appealing elements to me; cross-continuity concepts ain't. I told him he could think he was a Jedi, but he'd still be using magic. He can call it the Force all he wants. Perhaps I shall make a go-gang with an anime theme so as to inherently generate animosity (pun intended) and loathing from my more serious players. Complete with verbal announcements of when they cast spells and use particular martial arts moves. :oops: |
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Oct 6 2005, 04:18 PM
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#307
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Spellcasters with Bear as a mentor get +2 to resist physical damage; troll adepts rejoice in your further indestructibility.
But what happens to spellslingers who are overcasting? Do they get +2 dice to resist the physical damage done by the drain associated with casting a spell at a higher Force than their Magic? Or shall I (happily) assume that there is enough distinction between physical drain and physical damage to where the +2 does not apply for overcasting? If not, then I forsee many Bear magicians overcasting quite a bit and then turning around to heal (with their +2 bonus on Health spells) the physical damage that they so easily resisted. Slap on Quick Healer while you're at it. :P |
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Oct 10 2005, 05:42 PM
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#308
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Not a problem. In SR3 this was handled game mechanically by being a Houngan. You did your Sailor Senshi transformation sequence (which was summoning a spirit and being possessed by it), after which you didn't really look any different but noone recognized you. While in your Scout form you got access to a number of specific powers that you could use over and over again, and when you finally turned back into your normal self you were totally exhausted. And of course, eventually you learned how to do your super transformation, which gave you an even spiffier outfit and some extra powers - which game mechanically meant that you initiated and learned Invoking. Of course, all the Sailor Scouts had access to a number of powers that were usable while in their human forms (such as Usagi's Physical Mask and Ami's Analyze Device), so they were clearly Full Mages, Aspected Traditionalists, or Physical Mages (Personally, I'd go with Aspected Traditionalists, as I think Usagi can only use Illusion and Helth spells while in human form). Super Heroes who actaully can't use powers while in human form (such as Captain Marvel or Thor) are simply Aspected Conjurers. With SR4's open tradition system, it's going to be even easier once Possession comes back as an option in Street Magic. I have a working version here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=9822 Which means that Sailor Mercury is simply an Aspected Traditionalist of a Possession Tradition that associates Water Spirits with Detection Spells. So she can possess herself with Water Spirits and cast Detection Spells. Of course, this means that she can also reanimate corpses as Zombie Mercuries, but we can assume that she's enough of a good guy that she doesn't. She probably doesn't even have a binding skill. -Frank |
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Oct 10 2005, 05:48 PM
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#309
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Frank, I want you to know, you officially scare me.
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Oct 10 2005, 05:49 PM
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#310
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
*cries*
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Oct 10 2005, 05:51 PM
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#311
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Because he has ever considered Sailor Moon and SR in the same moment in time? Or because he's watched Sailor Moon enough to have that sort of detail on it? ;) |
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Oct 10 2005, 06:05 PM
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#312
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Both valid points.
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Oct 10 2005, 06:07 PM
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#313
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
It could be worse; The Thin H Line Fighting Evil By Moonlight. P.S. No i'm not going to link. ;) |
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Oct 10 2005, 06:11 PM
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#314
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Any other magic-types people want converted? It isn't very hard.
-Frank |
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Oct 10 2005, 08:48 PM
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#315
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
I quote the moral from many sci-fi tragedies:
"Just because you can do a thing, does not mean you should do a thing." :D |
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Oct 10 2005, 10:29 PM
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#316
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
*Blink. Blink Blink. Blink.* That is...so...cool.... |
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Oct 10 2005, 11:01 PM
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#317
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Have you considered doing Ally spirits Frank?
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Oct 11 2005, 12:48 AM
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#318
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Yeah, I should probably do that. By which I mean, I just wrote the prototype. Karma costs have been slightly tweaked and the rules for creation have been somewhat streamlined (when was the last time you saw someone fail the TN 3 Conjuring test?) in keeping with the design principles of SR4. -Frank |
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Oct 11 2005, 01:09 AM
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#319
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Target Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 4-November 04 Member No.: 6,807 |
I had to do a quick version of ally spirits to convert an SR3 character in my campaign. I basically decided that ally spirits are ordinary spirits that are bound permanently. They can't cast spells anymore, and their manifest forms have to fit with the type of spirit.
The character I was converting had an ally spirit that manifest as a cat (2 forms: housecat and panther), and she had never really developed the sorcery powers -- the spirit only knew the 1 spell it started with. So I converted it as a permanently bound beast spirit of the same force. Of course, this is a lot different than the old version of ally spirits, and it won't let you make dikoted AVS ally spirits :) But it's very streamlined and avoids introducing a whole new type of spirit with different powers. I didn't do creation rules since I was just converting a character, and I haven't really thought about how ally spirit improvement will work yet. |
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Oct 11 2005, 11:30 AM
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#320
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Wow, someone else who remembers it from when it was The Thin H Line, and not it's current incarnation, Sexy Loosers. Uh.. I mean... You are one sick puppy, reading that stuff which I have never heard of, being such a decent and honorable human being. Yep, that's my story, I'm sticking to it. On an actually related note, I too would like to seem some clarification on the Bear totem. Following it to the letter means bear shamans always overcast, then always heal themselves, and get bonuses to both. Scary stuff. |
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Oct 11 2005, 02:54 PM
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#321
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Oh, bless you for moving the thread back on track. |
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Oct 11 2005, 04:56 PM
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#322
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
I seriously don't see how you can even make the argument that Bear gives you bonuses to resist overcasting drain. The procedure for drain is that you make a drain resistance check against the Drain Value, and the Drain Value is subsequently applied as damage. At no time do you ever make a damage resistance test, so bonuses to resisting damage are useless. The Bear Totem no more assists in drain reduction than bone density augmentation does.
-Frank |
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Oct 12 2005, 11:00 AM
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#323
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Hmmm... let's look at that suggestion. Bone Density says:
vs Bear Totem's
and the drain test reads:
Implied then is that when overcasting it is Physical damage. When looking up damage resistance tests, you find:
Which is a specific type of test, the mechanics of which I don't think I need to type out. (Though, interestingly, it mentions that wound penalties do not apply to it, but sustained spells are not mentioned here.) Thus, if you are extraordinarily pedantic, you can claim that while the drain test is most certainly NOT a Damage Resistance Test, it IS a test to reduce physical damage (while overcasting). After all, the bear totem does not add dice to any specific test type (Drain Resistance nor Damage Resistance) but to a specific damage Type (Physical vs. Stun). And that damage type is a possibility in both test types. Claiming it doesn't apply to a Drain test (because it is not mentioned) is about as valid as claiming it doesn't apply to a Damage Resistance Test (because it also isn't mentioned). I *think* what was meant was instead that the bear bonuses would apply to a more limited number of Damage Resistance Tests (specifically, those that resist physical damage) but as written *could* be interpreted otherwise. Maybe it's even meant to be interpreted otherwise -- would a Bear shaman get those dice when resisting black IC? What about poisons? Neither of those cases is a damage resistance test (and bone density surely doesn't apply). But maybe bear totem is meant to? Really, it's hard to tell from the sparse wording. |
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Oct 12 2005, 02:21 PM
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#324
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
It's not damage until the Drain Resistance test is already done. The text pretty clearly states that you do the Drain Resistance test to lower the drain value, and whatever is not resisted is applied directly as either Stun or Physical damage. A Drain Resistance test is not a damage resistance test, because the Drain doesn't become actual damage until after the Resistance test.
It's a subtle distinction, yes, but it's pretty clearly stated in the rule excerpt you quoted. Oh, and the reason that Bone Density is worded differently is because it applies against Stun damage resistance tests as well. |
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Oct 12 2005, 04:04 PM
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#325
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Feshy, I thank you for typing out the exact adventure in rule-seeking that I went on. :) I also appreciate that you ended up in the same place that I did.
I could thematically justify the ability to overcast with less risk by saying Bear is just that tough or otherwise heedless of his personal safety. He's a berserker, after all. From a game-balance standpoint, it'd make a Bear healer really darn good in a clutch healing situation. As I (think I) mentioned, I'm fine with summarizing the situation to my players with "Drain Resistance is not Damage Resistance." Bear is fine with keeping you alive when you've been shot, but if you're melting your own brain that's your problem. I just wanted to make sure that line of reasoning wouldn't bite me in the ass later. |
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