Shadowrun 4: Hacking & Rigging

Shadowrun 4: Hacking & Rigging

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Bandwidthoracle

Aug 28 2005, 07:25 PM

Post #151

Moving Target

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QUOTE (ampere)

QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle @ Aug 27 2005, 09:43 PM)

QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 27 2005, 04:34 PM)

I think he's asking if you can get a Mentor Spirit for Technomancers. The answer to this is no. Mentor Spirits are for Awakened Characters. However, I can definitely see a way to make the equivalent rules for Technomancers (different philosophies on Resonance/Dissonance and the like), but this would be house ruling it.

Also, a Skin Link (different from a Touch Link, which is simply a way to receive Touch-related data from AR directly through a cybernetic connection) is a plausible way to connect with your devices, I guess, but folks are still going to hack into your "Commlink" first under SR4 rules (in the case of Technomancers, this is their Living Persona).

Make the AI's technomancer totems!

I can see it:

Maegara gives you +1 to access opperations.
M16...does whatever it is he does
Deus gives you +1 for going crazy

But seriously it could be cool

That's what I was thinking. Scary of course. I think the Technomancers would likely be vulnerable to the AIs more than anyone else.

I was thinking about hacking PANs and how since everyone is connected all the time, then everyone has a sort of network ID, so tracking people should be theoretically easier (unless you are using SW/ forms to spoof your network ID/ address which sounds like a good idea). I guess more effort is going to need to be made to protect yourself from hackers in this new wireless world.

1) I think since there is allready precidence for otaku worshiping AI's it is a cool idea.

2) Do technomancers still have echos the way otaku did, Specifically, traceroute would be very logical, now that everyone has Pan's, and what about InfoSortalidge, we loved Info Sortalidge, espically when you can use traceroute to generate data for sorting! :D

Bandwidthoracle View Member Profile	Aug 28 2005, 07:39 PM Post #152
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 338 Joined: 17-September 04 From: Pueblo Sector of Denver Member No.: 6,672	On an unrelated note, what do programs do now? Since target numbers are fixed and all, they obiously don't do that anymore.

hahnsoo

Aug 28 2005, 07:42 PM

Post #153

Mr. Johnson

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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle)

On an unrelated note, what do programs do now? Since target numbers are fixed and all, they obiously don't do that anymore.

The majority of tests made while Hacking involves a (Electronics/Cracking skill) + (Program Rating) test. For example, you roll Data Search + Browse Extended Test to do typical Searches. The program effectively substitutes for where the Attribute would normally go in a typical skill-based test.

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Aug 28 2005, 07:59 PM Post #154
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	so being being smart dont help but having good software does. hmm, bring on the script kiddies :P

Bandwidthoracle View Member Profile	Aug 28 2005, 08:00 PM Post #155
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 338 Joined: 17-September 04 From: Pueblo Sector of Denver Member No.: 6,672	In the DAQ 2.0, in skill groups it lists: Tasking: Compiling, Decompiling, Registering Is this a technomancer only thing? What do the skills "Software" and "Hardware" do? do these replease programming and B/R?

hahnsoo

Aug 28 2005, 08:07 PM

Post #156

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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle)

In the DAQ 2.0, in skill groups it lists:

Tasking: Compiling, Decompiling, Registering

Is this a technomancer only thing?

These are skills that pertain to Sprites, the "spirits" of the Matrix that Technomancers can summon. Compiling is Summoning, Decompiling is Banishing, and Registering is Binding.

QUOTE

What do the skills "Software" and "Hardware" do? do these replease programming and B/R?

Yup. You are correct.

Bandwidthoracle

Aug 28 2005, 09:04 PM

Post #157

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QUOTE (hahnsoo)

QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle @ Aug 28 2005, 02:39 PM)

On an unrelated note, what do programs do now? Since target numbers are fixed and all, they obiously don't do that anymore.

The majority of tests made while Hacking involves a (Electronics/Cracking skill) + (Program Rating) test. For example, you roll Data Search + Browse Extended Test to do typical Searches. The program effectively substitutes for where the Attribute would normally go in a typical skill-based test.

If cracking is the new computer skill, then what does computer do?

hahnsoo

Aug 28 2005, 09:24 PM

Post #158

Mr. Johnson

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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle @ Aug 28 2005, 04:04 PM)

If cracking is the new computer skill, then what does computer do?

Cracking skill group consists of Hacking, Electronic Warfare, and Cybercombat, and is usually used in illegal or oppositional tests.

Electronics skill group consists of Computer, Data Search, Software, and Hardware, and is usually used in legal or build/repair/take-apart type tests.

Note that both Computer and Hacking often are used for the exact SAME tests, substituting for each other depending on the situation. Computer is used when you have legal access to a system (a legal user passcode/access) and the system isn't fighting you. Hacking is used when you do not have legal access to a system. For example, if you have legal access to a certain node with a lot of personnel files, you use Computer + Edit to alter the files within. If you are Hacking illegally and do not have a legal access code, you roll Hacking + Edit to alter the files.

EDIT: While redundant in some cases, this allows for folks to be competant/exceptional data handlers (high Computer skill) without being uber Hackers (low Hacking skill).

Furious Ming View Member Profile	Aug 28 2005, 09:38 PM Post #159
Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 19-April 05 Member No.: 7,346	Could some one give me more details on comlinks

Bandwidthoracle

Aug 28 2005, 09:44 PM

Post #160

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QUOTE (hahnsoo)

QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle @ Aug 28 2005, 04:04 PM)

If cracking is the new computer skill, then what does computer do?

Cracking skill group consists of Hacking, Electronic Warfare, and Cybercombat, and is usually used in illegal or oppositional tests.

Electronics skill group consists of Computer, Data Search, Software, and Hardware, and is usually used in legal or build/repair/take-apart type tests.

Note that both Computer and Hacking often are used for the exact SAME tests, substituting for each other depending on the situation. Computer is used when you have legal access to a system (a legal user passcode/access) and the system isn't fighting you. Hacking is used when you do not have legal access to a system. For example, if you have legal access to a certain node with a lot of personnel files, you use Computer + Edit to alter the files within. If you are Hacking illegally and do not have a legal access code, you roll Hacking + Edit to alter the files.

EDIT: While redundant in some cases, this allows for folks to be competant/exceptional data handlers (high Computer skill) without being uber Hackers (low Hacking skill).

I thought you didn't have to role if you had legit access to a system, at least in SR3?
Do you immediatly switch over if you are able to add a new root user to a system?

hahnsoo

Aug 28 2005, 09:48 PM

Post #161

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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle)

I thought you didn't have to role if you had legit access to a system, at least in SR3?
Do you immediatly switch over if you are able to add a new root user to a system?

Normally, yes. But remember that in order for you to do things like Opposed tests to determine forgeries or fake life-like illusions or insert junk data into a file, you would have to roll something. Remember that one scene in "Speed" where they loop the tape? If you had legal access to a system, you'd roll Computer + Edit to do something like that, and it would be opposed by the onlooker's Visual Perception test. If you were hacking and were doing something illegally, you'd roll Hacking + Edit. Basically, anything that would actually require a test would use the Computer skill to roll.

blakkie

Aug 28 2005, 09:50 PM

Post #162

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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle)

I thought you didn't have to role if you had legit access to a system, at least in SR3?
Do you immediatly switch over if you are able to add a new root user to a system?

From his example it seems like maybe SR4 now takes into account the difference between noob Excel user that can punch in numbers and Excel wizard that can build a VBA/formula masterpiece?

hahnsoo

Aug 28 2005, 09:52 PM

Post #163

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QUOTE (Furious Ming)

Could some one give me more details on comlinks

Commlinks are PDAs/Pocket Secretaries on steroids. They are approximately equal to cyberterminals/cyberdecks in terms of mechanics... imagine a CD-player-sized portable device with the power of Fairlight Excalibur and the functionality of a Pocket Secretary, with the ability (using appropriate devices) to project AR information, utilize a Sim Module to send your character into full VR, and act as a hub for all of your personal electronic devices in your PAN... that's a Commlink. Commlinks have two attributes, Response (processor speed) and Signal (Flux). They run an OS that has two attributes as well, Firewall (fend off attacks) and System (overall program power).

hahnsoo

Aug 28 2005, 09:53 PM

Post #164

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QUOTE (blakkie @ Aug 28 2005, 04:50 PM)

From his example it seems like maybe SR4 now takes into account the difference between noob Excel user that can punch in numbers and Excel wizard that can build a VBA/formula masterpiece?

Right. If you are illegally cooking the books, but you had legal access to the system (perhaps a Mafia accountant or a crooked corp executive), then you'd use Computer + Edit to chop up the numbers. If you were a Hacker and you wanted to insert some information illegally (perhaps to discredit a particular project or insert an edited shipping manifest), then you'd use Hacking + Edit.

"But hahnsoo... why would anyone have high ratings in both? Why not just use Hacking?"
Because characters/NPCs may not be excellent at breaking into systems (not to mention that it's an inherently dangerous activity), but they may be computer whizzes. PCs may not utilize the Computer skill as well as NPCs, but in the "real world" of SR4 2070, the majority of folks out there would use the Computer skill.

Bandwidthoracle View Member Profile	Aug 28 2005, 09:54 PM Post #165
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 338 Joined: 17-September 04 From: Pueblo Sector of Denver Member No.: 6,672	--Edit-- I got beat with a much better response. So what does an OS system rating determine? This post has been edited by Bandwidthoracle: Aug 28 2005, 09:56 PM

hahnsoo

Aug 28 2005, 10:00 PM

Post #166

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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle)

--Edit-- I got beat with a much better response.

So what does an OS system rating determine?

A LOT of things. Many many things. But for starters, it determines your condition monitor for your persona (8 + System/2 round up) and how many devices/nodes you can subscribe to on your list (System x 2).

Furious Ming View Member Profile	Aug 28 2005, 10:01 PM Post #167
Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 19-April 05 Member No.: 7,346	Thanks hahnsoo Could you compare ratings and costs? And if any of the OS's are buggy?

hobgoblin

Aug 28 2005, 10:12 PM

Post #168

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QUOTE (Furious Ming)

And if any of the OS's are buggy?

just stay away from anything marked microdeck and you will be fine ;)

blakkie

Aug 28 2005, 10:37 PM

Post #169

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QUOTE (hahnsoo)

Right. If you are illegally cooking the books, but you had legal access to the system (perhaps a Mafia accountant or a crooked corp executive), then you'd use Computer + Edit to chop up the numbers. If you were a Hacker and you wanted to insert some information illegally (perhaps to discredit a particular project or insert an edited shipping manifest), then you'd use Hacking + Edit.

"But hahnsoo... why would anyone have high ratings in both? Why not just use Hacking?"
Because characters/NPCs may not be excellent at breaking into systems (not to mention that it's an inherently dangerous activity), but they may be computer whizzes. PCs may not utilize the Computer skill as well as NPCs, but in the "real world" of SR4 2070, the majority of folks out there would use the Computer skill.

But hahnsoo... why wouldn't i just jack my Hacking up, gimp my computer's security, and then break into my my computer 'illegally' everytime i wanted to cut some nasty data/code?

Or is that the part where the GM kickes me in the groin and takes my dice away?

Bandwidthoracle

Aug 28 2005, 10:48 PM

Post #170

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QUOTE (blakkie)

QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Aug 28 2005, 03:53 PM)

Right. If you are illegally cooking the books, but you had legal access to the system (perhaps a Mafia accountant or a crooked corp executive), then you'd use Computer + Edit to chop up the numbers. If you were a Hacker and you wanted to insert some information illegally (perhaps to discredit a particular project or insert an edited shipping manifest), then you'd use Hacking + Edit.

"But hahnsoo... why would anyone have high ratings in both? Why not just use Hacking?"
Because characters/NPCs may not be excellent at breaking into systems (not to mention that it's an inherently dangerous activity), but they may be computer whizzes. PCs may not utilize the Computer skill as well as NPCs, but in the "real world" of SR4 2070, the majority of folks out there would use the Computer skill.

But hahnsoo... why wouldn't i just jack my Hacking up, gimp my computer's security, and then break into my my computer 'illegally' everytime i wanted to cut some nasty data/code?

Or is that the part where the GM kickes me in the groin and takes my dice away?

I find you can kill two birds with one stone by throwing dice at the groin.

Pandamoanyum View Member Profile	Aug 28 2005, 10:58 PM Post #171
Target Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 16-August 05 From: Bug city Member No.: 7,557	Whoo, free dice!

Bandwidthoracle View Member Profile	Aug 28 2005, 11:06 PM Post #172
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 338 Joined: 17-September 04 From: Pueblo Sector of Denver Member No.: 6,672	To repost Ming's question, because it got me wondering too, what are the differences between the OS's?

hahnsoo

Aug 28 2005, 11:40 PM

Post #173

Mr. Johnson

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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle @ Aug 28 2005, 06:06 PM)

To repost Ming's question, because it got me wondering too, what are the differences between the OS's?

The difference? Two numbers: System and Firewall, as listed before. That's it.

There are a number of prefab OSes available to purchase, or you can buy the OS individually (200nuyen x Rating up to Rating 3 for both System and Firewall, 500 nuyen x Rating up to Rating 6 for both System and Firewall).

Bandwidthoracle

Aug 28 2005, 11:44 PM

Post #174

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QUOTE (hahnsoo)

QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle @ Aug 28 2005, 06:06 PM)

To repost Ming's question, because it got me wondering too, what are the differences between the OS's?

The difference? Two numbers: System and Firewall, as listed before. That's it.

There are a number of prefab OSes available to purchase, or you can buy the OS individually (200nuyen x Rating up to Rating 3 for both System and Firewall, 500 nuyen x Rating up to Rating 6 for both System and Firewall).

Ahh, I figured they might be like cars in rigger, they have some stats but secondary stuff too.
Are comlinks expensive?

nezumi View Member Profile	Aug 28 2005, 11:49 PM Post #175
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760	Blackkie, I think this is a skill group added more for realism than PCs, plus it's made for 'easier tests'. Presumably, every PC will have hacking skill over computer skill, since they largely do the same thing. But this gives GMs an excuse to say 'the network administrator is not sure how to hack into the system, even though he has half a dozen certifications'. It's also nice for say the mage or general researcher who knows he'll never hack into the system, but wouldn't mind a little help on 'gather information' tests. As long as the GM is kind on the hacker, letting him put it in place of computer for most reasonable tests, it makes sense.

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