 Shadowrun 4: Hacking & Rigging |
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 Sep 22 2005, 01:54 PM
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#326
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78  |
So you can encrypt the PAN communications via the commlink, then get rid of Encrypt without problems? In which case, I guess it's safe to assume that most of them come encrypted when purchased...
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Sep 22 2005, 03:35 PM
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#327
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Er, no. You Encrypt the communication when you open it (either end can set up this Encryption). Add a new device to your PAN? You have to run Encrypt again to set up that particular communication. Same thing when you set up a communication between you and another commlink, one of you has to load the Encrypt and run it to set up the protected communication. |
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Sep 22 2005, 03:57 PM
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#328
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
In which case, apparently most commlinks and the like aren't encrypted? If you have to buy and use a third party program, it seems to me that only the security conscious would bother, with everyone else being happy enough to let the node they are connecting to use encrypt if needed. As I mentioned earlier, few (none?) of the archetypes have it |
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Sep 22 2005, 04:13 PM
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#329
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
As usual, the sample characters are gimps....except for the few cases where they break the creation rules. ;) But expect those rule breakings to be mostly fixed for the second printing. It is really a matter of how paranoid the GM forces you to play. If he uses the rules to their potential and puts up enemies with r33t hacking skills that go for the kill by taking over your drones, stealing your data out of your commlinks, and actively screwing with your team member's PANs? Well you'll soon wonder why any 'runner would be without Encrypt and a selection of various ICE on their commlink. :) |
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Sep 22 2005, 04:38 PM
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#330
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
I think I'll just house rule in a free copy of encrypt on all operating systems (or maybe just on all commlinks)
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Sep 22 2005, 04:52 PM
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#331
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Like every System comes with aa free Scan 1 integrated?
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Sep 22 2005, 08:17 PM
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#332
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
Your cellphone has no encryption; at least not enough to trump ROT-13. The masses probably have no encryption b/c they have nothing worth encrypting. Heck, even today the "only criminals will have encryption" is trotted out by the FBI.
My (possibly house) ruling is that client devices have enough CPU to manage encryption equal to their rating but they require a "parent" device (aka Comm) with encryption to utilize it. The Comm downloads the specific encryption algorithm to use and the client uses the largest key it can. |
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Sep 22 2005, 08:21 PM
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#333
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
Not completely true as their personal data will be encrypted but yeah in general your point is right on about encryption I think :). |
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Sep 22 2005, 09:53 PM
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#334
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
I'm thinking that in the case of the SIN verification, the Comm acts as the client device as the scanner provides the encryption routine. SIN data would be stored in some special, and probably proprietary, encrypted portion of the Comm. |
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Sep 22 2005, 10:00 PM
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#335
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Those Files are encrypted (5 IIRC), but not specially stored.
Limiting the rating of the encryption to the Rating of the weaker device would house ruling indeed. |
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Sep 23 2005, 02:29 PM
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#336
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
I think this is application of the RAW. It may be a house rule simply because I haven't found the *right* rules in the BBB and I haven't played it enough yet to be confident.
My interpretation is based on the Device Rating rules, which is effectively the value of all functions not specified but that are logical for the device to perform. Encryption is a reasonable expectation for devices to provide but it is is not detailed anywhere except the Encryption program. Since there are no explicit rules for encrypting data between, say, a smartgun and a Comm with Encryption:5, I must fall back on the device rating, which for a smartgun is 3. IMO this means the communication between the Comm and the Smartgun will be encrypted but only at level 3. The Comm can use level 5 with other devices but not a off-the-shelf smartgun. I'd expect Street Gear to have a cost for upgrading devices' encryption beyond their Device Rating. Unless, of course, I've missed a rule in the book somewhere. |
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Sep 23 2005, 02:47 PM
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#337
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Brisbane, Australia Member No.: 78 |
You can upgrade the response of the smartlink using the price list on p240. Then you can get your mits on an operating system with the same system rating as the new response rating. Then you can install encryption on it :) Whilst looking that up though, I couldn't help but notice that there is no way of buying an operating system with a system rating above 4. You can purchase extra response for your hardware, but is the only way of getting a better operating system than those listed in the book to code it? |
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Sep 23 2005, 03:03 PM
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#338
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Neither Firewall, nor Encryption are limited by the Device installed on - but Encryption by the Device running the program, thus setting up the encryption.
Actually, System and Firewall may be purchased like other programs, see p. 288. |
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Sep 23 2005, 05:14 PM
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#339
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
That sentence doesn't parse to me. I get that you can load an Encryption program rating 42 on a System:1 Comm. However, all devices taking part in an encrypted conversation will need to run the encryption algorithms. That encryption can't be more complicated than either device can handle. Sooooo....a stupid device can't run a high-end encryption routine. |
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Sep 23 2005, 05:30 PM
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#340
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Not quite.
After you have encrypted a communication/file/access, there is neither need to run the Encryption Program anymore, nor is the Encryption Program limited by anything else than the the System of the Node setting it up, thus producing an Encryption Rating equal to that. There are no other limitations written in the rules. |
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Sep 23 2005, 09:32 PM
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#341
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
I agree there is no need for every device to have a copy of the Encrypt utility but I see nothing that says a device can communicate using encryption of a higher rating than the Device Rating. Matter of fact, the section on rigging that mentions encryption mentions upgrading drones in the same paragraph.
Barring errata, I don't see a pocket calculator being able to support Encryption:12 when talking to a mainframe. |
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Sep 23 2005, 10:32 PM
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#342
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
In fact, they do - ID-Data is stored and transmitted with an encryption of 5, regardless of the Response of the Commlink. Even without such examples, as the only limitation is the device running the program, this is implicit.
Where to be found? |
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Sep 24 2005, 03:17 PM
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#343
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
SR 4's "augmented reality" is essentially the same schtick from "GitS: SAC", right?
Sorry, the thought just occured to me. -Siege |
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Sep 26 2005, 01:41 AM
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#344
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Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 18-September 05 Member No.: 7,756 |
Hacker Joe has compromised someone's commlink and is eavesdropping on a call the owner makes with 3 successes. Who gets to detect the tap? Both commlinks involved in the call? Just the commlink that has been hacked into? If either of these, would it be System + Analyze (3) tests or extended tests? If extended tests, what's the interval? Or would one of the callers have to be actively searching for taps, requiring them to make a Computer + Analyze (3) test?
Sort of related to the Encrypt program discussion on this page: What programs come pre-installed with a standard OS? All common use programs at rating 1? At the rating of the system? None and you have to buy them separately? |
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Sep 26 2005, 01:50 AM
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#345
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Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 18-September 05 Member No.: 7,756 |
A character with Logic 4 and no Data Search skill has a commlink with a Browse 2 program running on it and needs to look up some readily-accessible data on the Matrix. Looking at the defaulting section in skills, he would roll 5 dice (Logic 4 -1 for defaulting + 2 for Browse rating) total to find this information. If the same character is actually trained in Data Search, say with rating 1, why would he then only roll 3 dice? Am I completely missing something?
Or should everything in the Wireless World section say something like use Logic + Data Search + Browse for basic data mining or Logic + Hacking + Exploit (Firewall, 1 IP) for the hacking on the fly test? |
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Sep 26 2005, 03:18 AM
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#346
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 16-January 05 Member No.: 6,984 |
The program acts as the equivalent to a stat in this case, so using a rating 2 program and no skill, they would get 1 die as far as I can tell. |
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Sep 26 2005, 05:00 AM
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#347
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
The program simply would run on it's own, neither affected by Logic nor defaulting.
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Sep 26 2005, 05:19 AM
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#348
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Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 18-September 05 Member No.: 7,756 |
I'm thinking of doing that -- having all OS come with rating 1 programs that anyone, even non-programmers or non-hackers could run. So the runner without a Data Search skill running Browse 1 would still get one die to roll when looking for screening times for Serenity this coming Friday.
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Sep 26 2005, 04:15 PM
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#349
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
There have been times when I've been using a crappy HTML editor and I realized that things would go a lot quicker and smoother if I just manually typed the code in myself. That's one of those cases when it's better to default to Logic than to use a low-end program. :) It's got real world precedent. |
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Sep 26 2005, 05:55 PM
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#350
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
But thats more akin to programing which uses skill + attribute than to doing something on the matrix. What you're asking to do is something like browsing the interenet for a site, without using a search engine at all. While its physicaly possible you can do that, its not recomended and its going to take forever and not be very good. |
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