Shadowrun 4: Hacking & Rigging

Shadowrun 4: Hacking & Rigging

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Oct 6 2005, 01:20 AM

Post #376

Moving Target

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QUOTE (SL James)

Assuming infinite bandwidth is really optimistic.

IMHO: Infinite bandwidth for the normal wageslave. To backup the entire matrix data of Saeder Krupp of the last 30 years in less than a second on your left cybereye isn´t going to work.

But downloading the next SimPorn ... ;-)

SYL

Wasabi View Member Profile	Oct 6 2005, 03:38 AM Post #377
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,251 Joined: 11-September 04 From: GA Member No.: 6,651	If my contacts can track a smartgun crosshair and throw an ultrasound emission out and visualize the echo, by golly powercells will have to have gotten smaller. I hereby dub it the "nanomite treadwheel power source"! Like a microscopic gerbil ball on an atomic level rolling down neutron after neutron of stairs. :-) [But seriously, power sources are so very assumed why even track it?]

SL James View Member Profile	Oct 6 2005, 05:13 AM Post #378
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473	So it's okay to stream a BTL in real-time, but not okay to transfer large amounts of raw text into storage? Right. And so... I guess I just get to be completely arbitrary and capricious. "Eh, I don't care. You can't transfer two business cards between you in one second." Super.

Azralon View Member Profile	Oct 6 2005, 03:59 PM Post #379
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773	A real-world explanation of skinlink technology. http://news.com.com/Microsoft+patents+body...ml?tag=nefd.top (The illustration is my favorite part.) Relevant quote: "In its filing, Microsoft says its work addresses wearable devices that are too small to have any kind of interface or even a battery, such as earrings. The company proposes using pulsed AC or DC signals to power the devices. A 100Hz signal could be used to power one device, while a 150Hz signal could be used to power another, the company said, and data signals can be modulated on top of these power signals." So, yes, there is power transfer. Apparently that's how the SR4 contacts get their juice. Kinda makes you feel all tingly, eh?

Eyeless Blond View Member Profile	Oct 6 2005, 05:08 PM Post #380
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156	Wait, does that patent mean Microsoft actually knows how to do it, or that Microsoft owns the concept just in case someone else figures out how it's done? I also like how they patented the double-click.

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Oct 6 2005, 05:34 PM Post #381
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	only microsoft (and any other corp that have dont a successfull run against them) knows... as for contacts sending out ultrasonic pulses, unless thats in the SR4 text im filing that under "overstatements to prove a point" (or better known as hyperbole?).

Azralon

Oct 7 2005, 04:34 PM

Post #382

Shooting Target

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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)

I also like how they patented the double-click.

I oughta go patent the "move mouse around" concept.

Aku View Member Profile	Oct 7 2005, 04:36 PM Post #383
Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769	did they also get "right click"?

Eyeless Blond View Member Profile	Oct 7 2005, 05:33 PM Post #384
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156	No, but I think they tried to patent the concept of an icon, until Apple heard about it and started laughing.

RunnerPaul View Member Profile	Oct 8 2005, 12:18 AM Post #385
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364	Of course, Xerox's PARC predates both Apple and Uncle Bill, so it's kind of funny, really.

Nikoli View Member Profile	Oct 8 2005, 06:10 PM Post #386
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033	Yeah, weren't some of the guys involved in the first two there working on PARC?

jt26077 View Member Profile	Oct 20 2005, 10:02 PM Post #387
Target Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: 20-October 05 Member No.: 7,863	I was taking a look at the sample Drone Rigger they give on page 92, and noticed on several drones they note upgraded Pilot, Firewall, Response, and Signal values. Aside from the Pilot rating on vehicles and drones, does anyone know what the default values for these other 3 are? Do they just use the values associated with the device they are connected to, the riggers commlink usually, or something else?

Nkari View Member Profile	Oct 20 2005, 10:10 PM Post #388
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 135 Joined: 30-July 04 From: Orebro, Sweden Member No.: 6,523	Pilot rating of 3, then _all_ the skills the drone can possibly have is at 3.. no less no more.. then you can specifically modify these things.. all subject to Response and system limitations.. Atleast thats the way I get it..

TonkaTuff View Member Profile	Oct 20 2005, 10:47 PM Post #389
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 11-September 05 Member No.: 7,729	Yeah, that's the way my GM and I interpreted it, as well. In order to run Pilot in the first place, and as remote devices, vehicles have to have some equivalent system to a standard computer/commlink. And since they didn't bother to specify, with most of the other considerations, it's likely the other system stats would be on-par with the default Pilot rating. The unusual thing, looking at the sample rigger, is that he's got the computer skill at 4, but didn't spend the handful of hours required to crack his software to improve all of his drones. Signal and Response require new hardware, but Firewall and Pilot can be copied like anything else. And with no limit set on Firewall, re: system/pilot or response, all of those drones ought to have the same r5 as his commlink. Of course, the samples break several rules, anyhow, so it's just another quirk, I suppose.

Neskeptic View Member Profile	Oct 24 2005, 12:46 AM Post #390
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Xeros View Member Profile	Oct 31 2005, 11:10 PM Post #391
Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 31-October 05 Member No.: 7,915	Ok...that's a lot of info. Hi, I'm new here, and making a technomancer for a new game. There are a lot of subtleties for how this stuff works that I am still trying to grasp. I am going on the premise that technos do not need commlinks. Hard data, such as IDs, sin, telecomm address, etc... would still be on a hard data storage, but they can feed that into their PAN as normal (commlinks would store that data somewhere after all). That all makes sense tome. The one thing I am not quite grasping, is hacking peripherals hooked into a PAN. If a smartlink has a wifi port that transmits to the PAN, what stops someone from hackign the smartlink directly, and not bothering with the PAN. The wifi connection is open. I suspect you would still have to spoof or hack your way in, as the smartlink is set up to talk to the host PAN, so you will need to fake yourself as that PAN, but I am not sure why you would need to actually route through the real PAN. It would be a different story if the smartlink was connected by a fibre optic cable to the commlink, but it is is transmitting, then why can't I hit it straight on?

NightRain

Nov 1 2005, 12:22 AM

Post #392

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Xeros)

There are a lot of subtleties for how this stuff works that I am still trying to grasp. I am going on the premise that technos do not need commlinks. Hard data, such as IDs, sin, telecomm address, etc... would still be on a hard data storage, but they can feed that into their PAN as normal (commlinks would store that data somewhere after all). That all makes sense tome.

It's not quite covered in the rules, but personally I'd rule that if a technomancer wants to pass as a regular Joe in downtown, he will need a commlink as well. That's because his living persona does not have an access ID as such. He doesn't have one because he doesn't need one, however the lack will make him stand out if scanned.

Also, bear in mind that the simple act of not having a visible commlink will make everyone assume he's either a technophobe or a technomancer, and that's kinda giving your game away

Much easier to just carry around a cheap commlink with nothing but some basic fake SIN data etc on it. You don't really need to use it for anything, but having it will head of suspicion

QUOTE

The one thing I am not quite grasping, is hacking peripherals hooked into a PAN. If a smartlink has a wifi port that transmits to the PAN, what stops someone from hackign the smartlink directly, and not bothering with the PAN. The wifi connection is open. I suspect you would still have to spoof or hack your way in, as the smartlink is set up to talk to the host PAN, so you will need to fake yourself as that PAN, but I am not sure why you would need to actually route through the real PAN.

Basically, it can't be done because the smartlink is subscribed to the PAN and will only accept communications from it. If you aren't part of the PAN, it won't listen to you. Theoretically you could hack the smartlink directly, but that would involve using electronic warfare to find and decrypt the signal, then forging a signal passing yourself off as the authentic commlink. The spoof command doens't work on devices and the command program requires you to be logged in as a valid user (ie hacked the commlink), so all in all, that kind of data forging is beyond the scope of the current rules.

If I were going to house rule it, I'd simply say that as it's subscribed to a commlink, you could hack the smartlink directly (after finding and decrypting the signal as needed) as if you were hacking any other matrix node. I'd give it the same firewall and system as the commlink itself though (though the system rating would be limited by the device/response rating of the smartlink). Once in, you'd have hacked the smartlink specifically, not the PAN, so you could screw around with the smartlink, but nothing else. I'd also let any IC on the commlink come and harass you in the smartlink if it found you there (though again, the response/device rating of the smartlink would hamper the IC). The end result of the house rule being it would be somewhat pointless but possible to hack the device directly, encouraging people to go for the commlink

Eyeless Blond View Member Profile	Nov 1 2005, 02:41 AM Post #393
Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156	Also the SL would have a signal of 0, so you'd have to be within spitting distance of the target to attempt it.

Xeros View Member Profile	Nov 1 2005, 04:35 AM Post #394
Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 31-October 05 Member No.: 7,915	Yeah, but the signal of the SL doesn't matter, it's not the one that is needing to cover the distance, it's the techno. I understand in general though, some unification is needed of a very abstract concept. I guess if you successfully spoofed the PAN hub, that's as good as having hacked the PAN hub. Also, my techno will have a commlink for appearances, but crap all in real security. Nothing will be subscribed to it.

Dancer

Nov 1 2005, 04:51 AM

Post #395

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Xeros)

Yeah, but the signal of the SL doesn't matter, it's not the one that is needing to cover the distance, it's the techno.

My transmitter might be able to reach it, but if its transmitter can't reach me I can't really hack into it since I can't see what's happening.

NightRain

Nov 1 2005, 05:55 AM

Post #396

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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)

Also the SL would have a signal of 0, so you'd have to be within spitting distance of the target to attempt it.

That's a very good point as well :)

Dancer View Member Profile	Nov 1 2005, 11:07 AM Post #397
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659	How does this look for a 'Hacker in a box'? Hermes Ikon.........................................3000Y Novatech Navi .....................................1500Y Agent (R4)...........................................10,000Y All Common Use programs (R4)............2800Y Exploit (R4)..........................................4000Y Stealth (R4).........................................4000Y Hacking programs (R3)........................12,000Y (Armor, Attack, Decrypt, Defuse, ECCM, Sniffer, Spoof, Track) Total 37,300Y (8 Build Points) It can do nearly anything a competent human hacker can do, although it can't match up to a PC-level hacker and lacks opportunism. On the upside, it doesn't take a cut of the pay and won't whine about working 72 hours straight. You can drop the hacking programs (except Exploit and Stealth) to get the 25,000Y budget model, but that can't do much more than steal data and open doors.

Valentinew View Member Profile	Nov 3 2005, 06:39 AM Post #398
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 207 Joined: 3-November 05 From: KCMO Member No.: 7,922	Please forgive if I ask a question that's already been answered. I tried to read all 16 pages tonight & some of them blurred a little. :dead: I get how a technomancer carrying a commlink could be useful, both to broadcast necessary (fake) info & to connect to a wired system if necessary. (Although I disagree about not having a visible one. For all Joe on the street knows, yours is implanted.) :cyber: It is a little confusing that the sample Technomancer in the book does not have a commlink, but does have a fake SIN. No storage device either. The book implies that a techno does not need a commlink, even for transmitting the required info. I guess I'd like to have that information cleared up a little, but I can work with what I've got. My question is, do technomancers need to have a smartlink, or can they access the smartgun system without one, since it's wireless?

Feshy

Nov 3 2005, 01:05 PM

Post #399

Moving Target

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QUOTE

Total 37,300Y (8 Build Points)

The real icing on the cake is if you compare that to the cost required to get the necessary skills at 4, the equivalent of the agent:

Cracking skill group 4 (40 BP)
Computer 4 (16 BP)
Data Search 4 (16 BP)
So far as I know, Agents can't do hardware or software related tests. 0 BP for these two.

That's a total of 72 BP for all agent skills at 4 -- or just pay exactly 2 BP for an agent at rating 4 -- the only difference will be that the agent can't use edge.

For chargen, it looks like the hacker-dabbler concept is pretty well dead. It's uber-hacker, or hacker in a box. Otherwise, you're waisting about 70 BP.

The only saving grace is that you could play a technomancer instead; at least then you get some bonus "flavor" in the form of sprites.

Dancer View Member Profile	Nov 3 2005, 02:17 PM Post #400
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659	Can a boxed hacker do the Electronic Warfare test to find a hidden node?

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