 Shadowrun 4: Hacking & Rigging |
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 Nov 8 2005, 01:29 PM
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#426
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,896  |
Yeah, I re-read that part and noticed it. I keep confusing exactly what a simmodule does and thinking that it only works for VR. I also keep confusing the smartgun link that is implanted (in you or in your glasses/goggles/whatever) with an imagelink rather than a specialized ballistics processor that depends on an imagelink. Most of that realization was in my edited post above. Too much time spent poking at the smartgun components from SR3 and not enough reading the gear section of SR4. :embarassed:
But I appreaciate the clarification anyway. :) |
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Nov 8 2005, 03:09 PM
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#427
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
just like the changes in magic from sr2 to sr3, this creates confusion as people try to use sr3 knowhow in a sr4 world.
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Nov 14 2005, 01:26 AM
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#428
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
Not exactly sure on how hardware upgrades work.
If I take a comlink with a Response 4 Signal 5 and upgrade it to Response 5 Signal 5, does it cost me 250 :nuyen:; 4,000 :nuyen:; or 2,000 :nuyen: ? If I wish up upgrade my Firewall do I have to buy a new program or can I just patch in an upgrade for the difference in cost? |
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Nov 14 2005, 03:28 PM
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#429
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 207 Joined: 3-November 05 From: KCMO Member No.: 7,922 |
I'm pretty sure the Response upgrade costs 4000 :nuyen:
Not sure about the upgrade.... |
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Nov 14 2005, 03:31 PM
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#430
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 |
I'm not really sure on the rule either. My intuition tells me you could take the cost to upgrade some device to 5, and the cost to upgrade a device to 4, and take the difference between the two. Otherwise, it'd be just as expensive to upgrade your R1S2 MetaLink as it would be to upgrade your R4S5 commlink... and that's just silly. |
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Nov 15 2005, 12:59 AM
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#431
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 11-September 05 Member No.: 7,729 |
I'm fairly certain it's the full listed cost - at least with hardware upgrades. It's like switching out the graphics card in your comp to the newest model. Most of the time you're shelling out the full price (minus mail-in rebates, I guess), not trading up.
There might be a more valid argument for software... if it's a completly legal, uncracked copy. It's just a download of extra or better code. But even then, most of the time your giant software corporations are gonna make you pay full price for the new version. And why not - it's more money for them. If you want it badly enough, you're gonna pay what they're asking. Or steal it, but no doubt the crackers are going to want their cut, too. In any event, it's another instance of GM fiat. If they want to give you credit on the older bits to reduce the price of the new shinies, that's their decision. |
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Nov 15 2005, 02:03 AM
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#432
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 565 Joined: 7-January 04 Member No.: 5,965 |
ugrading resonse is probably similar to upgrading the CPU, RAM, motherboard, and a card slot. It can get expensive fast. Plus, a lot of the cheap models have a lot of sub-standard parts.
I think the metalink, as the cheapest commlink, has a flimsy plastic case, and uses low-cost cheap parts. plastic screws. the kind of stuff that breaks beyond repair with one good solid smack. its probably small and lightweight, like a cheap cellphone. The high-end commlinks, on the other hand, are going to have a sturdy case, possibly metal or some high-impact polymer. metal screws, good bateries that wont just die, and sturdy construction. considering what upgrades cost, who would want the low-end box? |
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Nov 15 2005, 12:55 PM
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#433
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Someone who doesn't want to advertise the fact that they've got a expensive, top-of-the-line commlink? |
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Nov 15 2005, 01:21 PM
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#434
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 |
Also, of the high-end commlink's pricetag.. .very little of it is the solid casing. In real life, people buy custom cases for their computers all the time - and compared to the price of your monitor, or high end graphics card, its inexpensive. I imagine that buying a metalink, upgrading it to "full power" and then slaping down :nuyen: 500 for a slick custom case would give you something just as durable as the top of the line stock commlinks. In SR3 you could even buy custom casings for your deck that had armor to protect the expensive insides. I don't see why that would have changed all that much (aside from there being no rules for it in the core book). In any case, your upgraded commlink would be jsut as protected as a high-end stock-model, perform just as well, cost you less money, and depending on who's looking, you might even get the benifit RunnrePaul mentioned of them not being able to look at it and know what you've got on the inside. The hardware argument is a good one. If I want to upgrade the CPU on my computer, I can't just buy an add-on, I have to replace it... and I won't get anything for the 3-year old one I have. However, that said, I don't see any reason why players won't all be rolling with (modded) MetaLinks instead of actually upgrading machinery that is decent to begin with. Because of that point, I would be tempted to rule you can "upgrade" that equipment even if it makes less sense to do so - at least until some better commlink customization rules come along. After character creation is another story... but a response-5, signal-5 commlink should have the same "value" to a starting character whether it started as a MetaLink or as a Fairlight Caliban. There are minor differences based on the case, as people have said, but since hte rules don't support you ever accidentally breaking it, or anyone targetting it for an attack, there really is no advantage. |
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Nov 24 2005, 06:19 AM
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#435
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Target Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: 24-November 05 Member No.: 7,997 |
Evening Folks,
Looking for some logic on this one, someone lend me an opionion or two... From the read in order to run AR/VR you need a Comlink and Sim Module. Sim Modules are available in Trode form Simrigs are available in Trode form Comlinks are available external Does this mean that you can have a Matrix running "Decker" with no Essence cost? I'm sure I must be missing something here but I'm not sure what it might be. Thanks |
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Nov 24 2005, 06:40 AM
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#436
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Yes. For clarity: For AR, you need two things: A Commlink, and an Image Link. For VR, you need three things: A Commlink A Sim Module A direct neural interface. Commlinks are available as cyberwear, or external units. Imagelinks are available as cyberwear (cybereyes) or external units (goggles, glasses, contacts, etc.) Sim Modules are available as an addon to your Commlink (which means either internal or external) Direct Neural interfaces are available with either a Datajack (cyberwear) or as Trodes (external) So, you can do AR, or even full VR, with no essence loss at all. |
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Nov 24 2005, 12:54 PM
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#437
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Note that if you have a sim module, and some way for it to output into the brain (Datajack, Trodes, etc) you can get AR overlay without having to have an external or implanted Image Link. However, getting your AR Overlay via sim module leaves you open to simsense emotive-track spamming. While it's probably not complex to disable the emotive-track outputs of a sim module, that specific task is not covered anywhere in the rules, so it's up to the individual GM. Also, all implanted cyberware commlinks come equipped with a sim module as part of the sticker price, and do not need any form of datajack or trodes, as it's wired directly to the brain during implanting. |
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Nov 24 2005, 09:36 PM
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#438
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Yes, I meant to include that if you have access to VR, the same equipment can give you AR. But the mashed potatoes where done (why yes, we *DO* have thanksgiving here at 2am. What of it?) As for the other part... do implanted comlinks really come with a sim module? And "trodes" (or their equivalent?) The sim module I had always assumed that you needed the separate Sim Module Cyberwear. Having looked, I still think that is the case, though it *could* be a standalone module. The cyberware version references the Sim Module on page 318, the description of which sounds like a standalone module. The gear chart underneath that lists the prices, though, only lists it as an accessory. I can't tell if that means you need to buy a "comlink with sim module accessory" as the cyberware comlink, or if you need to buy a cyber comlink AND a cyber sim module to get VR. |
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Nov 25 2005, 11:03 AM
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#439
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 11-September 05 Member No.: 7,729 |
Not so sure if the headware commlink comes standard with a sim module already installed (thought I remembered seeing it, but going over my book, I can't find it). But having it shoved into your brain means that (more than likely) it's got a DNI connection - so no need for trodes or a datajack, unless you want non-wireless access to external devices, too. From the looks of things, you can either have the sim module built into the implanted comm, or get just a sim module itself installed into your brain, if you want. I'm assuming the latter option is there if you want the sim, but not a whole commlink stuck in there (though one would think there'd be an essence break for going with the partial) The stand-alone sim module implant would useful for a number of reasons. You can turn it on or off without drawing attention by switching your commlink off or into stealth-mode. You can discretely slot your beetles w/o having them show up if someone scans your commlink (if you have a datajack). And it means you'll always have VR access, even if the device you've been forced to use at the moment might not have a module installed. |
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Nov 26 2005, 12:52 AM
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#440
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
"Simrigs (both worn and implanted) and cranial commlinks also contain sim modules." -- p.228, 2nd paragraph under the heading "Virtual Reality" Which is the last place anyone would think to look for it, I would imagine. |
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Nov 26 2005, 12:59 AM
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#441
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Thanks! I've noticed an awful lot of page-flipping required in this book. Rules seem to often not be where I would think to find them. This is a good example; I read the descriptions for implanted comlinks to see if they had Sim modules. Instead I needed to read the Virtual Reality overview. I don't know if it's the locations that don't quite make sense, or if it is my own . . . ah, shall we say. . . eclectic sense of "organization." Anyone else having trouble with this? |
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Nov 26 2005, 01:09 AM
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#442
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
What does a Simrig contain that a sim module does not?
And if they are the same then why is the essence cost and price different? |
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Nov 26 2005, 01:15 AM
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#443
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Simrig is for recording, sim module is for playback. |
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Nov 26 2005, 01:15 AM
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#444
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
The sim module is the thing that converts the digital data of a simsense stream into a form that's readable by the brain, when played back through trodes, or through the direct neural connection provided by an implant like a datajack.
The external simrig is an elaborate set of trodes that comes with a built in sim module for playback, but can also record the user's own sensory experience and convert it into a digital simsense datastream. The implanted simrig is the same playback & recording, but with direct neural connections instead of electrodes. |
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| Guest_Seifer_* |
Nov 28 2005, 04:15 AM
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#445
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Guests |
Here's a question I'm curious to know - the Implanted Commlink is headware, meaning that it's nestled right up there next to your brain. Now, the commlink itself is a wireless transmitter that's almost always on. So correct me if I'm wrong here, when you implant a commlink into your head, you will suddenly have a wireless antenna that's always on right next to your brain.
Brain cancer, anyone? Jeez, and you thought cellphones were bad. :D |
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Nov 28 2005, 04:28 AM
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#446
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
The real problem is *all* cyberware is wireless-enabled by default now, and all of it is DNI, so you have potentially dozens of radio transmitters frying your brain all the time. And oh NO, people will LOOK AT YOU WEIRD if you decide you don't want brain cancer, and ask for all those transmitters to be disabled. See, I've got my excuses all lined up. :) |
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Nov 28 2005, 05:12 AM
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#447
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Wouldn't be the first time implants caused brain cancer. That's the in-game explanation for why Program Carriers never made it out of First Edition. Shame too, because "Decking Naked" was so fun to say. So, does the same thing go for Technomancers? |
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Nov 29 2005, 04:09 PM
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#448
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
There ya go, technomancy is due to a pandemic of a specialized form of quasi-Awakened Martian brain cancer.
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Nov 30 2005, 03:21 AM
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#449
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
I was wondering when they'd get around to fleshing out that whole Mars plotline.
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Dec 10 2005, 03:29 AM
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#450
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Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 22-October 05 Member No.: 7,875 |
I might have missed this info in the book, or missed the question on the board. If this is the case, I'm sorry.
How do you figure out vehicle or drone stats not listed in the chart on pg. 342? (i.e., Firewall and response. I'm assuming they all have a signal of 5, since on pg. 325 lists vehicle sensor packages as having such.) I realize the costs to upgrade them, but I don't know what their orriginal values are. Also, is there a printed way of upgrading sensors, or is that being held back until the Sourcebook? |
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