Is S4 better than S3?, rather self-explanatory Options

[Chiba Cowboy]

Okay, I don't know if anyone has directly addressed this question yet. Shadowrun has always had things you hated about it, SR4 was never going to be the exception. All things considered however, what do you think?

BTW, this is my first post here. I look forward to alienating you all with tedious, essentially contestable and subjective opinion. On with the show...

[Kagetenshi]

You'd probably get a better answer if you waited a few weeks on this poll.

~J

[Chiba Cowboy]

Of course I understand what you are saying. I'm trying to get the general impression of all those people who zerg rushed the FanPro booth at Gencon. After all, these are mainly the hardcore indivdiduals (who live in the proxmity - or have the disposable income/time to do it) and their opinions are usually the most interesting ones.

[blakkie]

Agreed. It'll likely take some time after getting the source books, to read and perhaps play to be definative.

[Chiba Cowboy]

I think Shadowrun has always had a kind of unique fanbase that separated it from most other RPG's. Being rules-heavy, gritty and rather genre-bending it alienated a lot of people. Of course, these things are basically what contributed towards it being such a good game. I hope that it still strives to be realistic (or as realistic as it ever was before you chime in...), places the emphasis firmly back on the street and makes that Geisha girl with the dikoted hair pin shit your pants.

[Grinder]

I voted "can't decide" as i haven't played SR4 or at least read the rule book.

[6thDragon]

I liked the rules system for all the old whitewolf games (vampire, werewolf) this seems to be going in that direction so I'm sure I'll look at the changes in a possitive light.

[Bull]

I say yes, having played and run a number of games now, not to mention endlessly shilled the game. Of course, i'm also a tad biased about it as well, thanks to said shilling... But... :)

Bull

[mmu1]

[Nerbert]

[Kagetenshi]

Indeed, I'd be very interested in knowing the specific thought processes behind changes.

~J

[Lindt]

The book is out, the NDA dosent apply anymore.
Me too Kage, me too.

From what I GMed (which, because the book wasent actually out yet, was a bit of a clusterf*ck) it seemed to be a very smooth, if somewhat confusing system. Im sure it will play FASTER, but Im not convinced about better.

[Chiba Cowboy]

Well as of this post, only 17% of people are definately saying that SR4 is inferior to the previous version. I guess FanPro will be happy.

[Kagetenshi]

That's one way to spin it. I mean, I'm sure they will be, but they've got no cause to be based on this poll—most people still don't have the book and thus can't make a final judgement.

I will point out that of the two groups who have made up their mind, the people who don't think it's an improvement are about 40%.

~J

[Demonseed Elite]

There's very little that's scientific or representative about this poll anyway, so I doubt it'll factor much into anything at FanPro. They'll be looking at sales numbers, I imagine.

And keep in mind that the NDA still does cover, and will always cover, the developmental process for SR4. I'm sure some details will be mentioned here and there, because they aren't major trade secrets or anything, but most of the devs who were really in the know as to intentions don't post here very much. And by far, most of the design decisions came from Rob, of course, and I doubt he'll stop by to post why he made them.

[Chiba Cowboy]

I take your point. However, the people that have commented are largely hardcore fans (which I imagine is the population of dumpshock). Shadowrun is unpopular with the mainstream (you only have to scan RPGnet to see how many people whinge about the ruleset) and SR4 I believe is as much about fishing for new customers as it was about keeping the existing. If a complete revamp doesn't stop the traditional fanbase from buying products, then they can only really win. Plus it has a ninja on the cover.

[wagnern]

It looks promising, I have built my charictor, my friends are doing the same. Friday we will find out.

[Chiba Cowboy]

This poll is just a little indicator of initial reactions. Obviously sales and the bottom-line are what is important. I don't think they would be too displeased though, given some of the outright hostility and speculation of the past months.

[blakkie]

It is a nearly redundant poll. *shrug* For what it's worth that mid-teens range of strongly negative is about the same as for months here.

It would not surprise me in the least if the actual number of people here that don't pick up and read the SR4 BBB in the next month (whether legally or illegally) is going to be more like single digit percetanges. I'm guessing the number that play it at least a couple sessions is going to be up around 90% too. All the hissing and spitting and gnashing of teeth you hear around here directed at SR4 is just a chorus of "we love you SR, we are your hopeless fanboi slaves, where can we send our money".

[mmu1]

What is it they say about visiting a sausage factory?

The D&D 3E to 3.5 transition - which had tons of developers posting things on the "revision" process - sort of soured me on the idea of seeing what goes on behind the scenes. Especially when I realized that I (and a lot of other regulars) understand the rules better than most of the people hired to make changes to them...

[Chiba Cowboy]

[mintcar]

Of the things that I know from reading everything anybody has said about it here since GenCon, some things seem clearly better others seem worse. For me, the improvements are much more numerous. The more I know the more I like it. But it´s not all I had hoped. I would have liked more changes and more simplification. On the other hand it´s nice that the complexity is still there in a way. Let´s say I like it and there seems to be only gain from the change, still complex but more fluid.. But I could have taken a few losses to get even more gain. Need to try it out off course before I can say for sure.

[blakkie]

[Chiba Cowboy]

[Kagetenshi]