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> New product:, Dr Nyxll's DNA -B- Gone
Nyxll
post Aug 25 2005, 07:09 PM
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Ever been on a run that got hosed right over?

Ever catch yourself bleeding in a corporate facility and worry about a ritual team tracking you down.

If these questions keep you awake at night, then Dr Nyxll's DNA-B-Gone is for you.

Made of very fast acting protein digesting bacteria stored in a safe room temperature pressurized container for ease of use.

Simply spray foam from the can over the DNA evidence. Nasty blood and other human fluids will be tranformed into traceless goo, keeping you and your team safe from ritual teams.

If you call now, we will include two exploding express delivery systems. Simply pull the pin, throw the ball close to the offending sample, and in a few seconds, miraculously, the container explodes covering 27 square meters of surface with foam. Also if you order right now, we will add a second cannister of foam absolutely free. That's right, two cannisters and 2 express delivery systems can be yours for only $99.95. heres how to order ........
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ShadowDragon8685
post Aug 25 2005, 07:31 PM
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....... That actually sounds like a good idea. :)


What if you use it as a weapon, though?
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Sabosect
post Aug 25 2005, 07:40 PM
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Oh, those poor, poor guards...
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Foreigner
post Aug 25 2005, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (Sabosect @ Aug 25 2005, 02:40 PM)
Oh, those poor, poor guards...

Indeed.

As if the grenades weren't bad enough, an Ares Supersquirt loaded with a mixture of "DNA-B-Gone" and DMSO (assuming, that is, that the stuff can't be absorbed through the skin as-is) would be nasty.

Although the victim would most likely make some rather unpleasant noises as he/she was dissolving....

Actually, this sounds like a technological approach to the "Turn to Goo" spell about which I've read so much.

--Foreigner
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hahnsoo
post Aug 25 2005, 07:48 PM
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Erm, first of all, this is a bacteria, and thus is at least an order of magnitude above the size of compound that is facilitated by using DMSO. Second, even if you could introduce a bacteria like that, it would be easily taken care of by a standard immune response. Third, all of the things stated in the first post can be done with a Bleach bomb. You just need a sufficient cleaning/ denaturing agent, and not any fancy gengeneered bacteria.
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Sabosect
post Aug 25 2005, 08:03 PM
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Hahnsoo, he's talking about using a flesh-eating bacteria to remove DNA evidence. Those are not taken care of by standard immune responses by any stretch of the imagination. The vampire two blocks down may be immune to it, but those security guards are going to die.
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hahnsoo
post Aug 25 2005, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE (Sabosect)
Hahnsoo, he's talking about using a flesh-eating bacteria to remove DNA evidence. Those are not taken care of by standard immune responses by any stretch of the imagination. The vampire two blocks down may be immune to it, but those security guards are going to die.

You can't introduce Streptococcus or any other bacteria species with DMSO, is what I'm saying. Also, Flesh-eating bacteria doesn't "eat" DNA. What you are talking about is Necrotizing fasciitis, and that requires a penetrating wound or a person with Diabetes, and a failure of the acute immune response to activate, either due to a lack of circulation (typically in the fascia planes, thus fasciitis) or immunosupression. Even then, the bacteria that causes it is so fragile that the very probability of NF happening is extremely low. It's one of those things that doctors always watch for when presented with cellulitis, but less than 0.1% of cases ever occur.
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Nyxll
post Aug 25 2005, 08:18 PM
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DNA -B- Gone is a generic bacteria that just eats mammal/reptile proteins. Doesn't affect plants. This is a new genetic organism.

There could be a few different variations. Maybe Dr' Nyxll should get back into the lab and develop a whole product line.

The bacteria has a huge advantage over bleach.

Since it is alive, it can multiply and spread to destroy evidence that it didn't initially come into contact with. (A little dab will do ya)

You would need a greater quantity of bleach than bacteria agent.

:edit: less pungeant than bacteria so it would make your escape less noticeable. In case you cut yourself inadvertantly.
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Sabosect
post Aug 25 2005, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (Sabosect @ Aug 25 2005, 03:03 PM)
Hahnsoo, he's talking about using a flesh-eating bacteria to remove DNA evidence. Those are not taken care of by standard immune responses by any stretch of the imagination. The vampire two blocks down may be immune to it, but those security guards are going to die.

You can't introduce Streptococcus or any other bacteria species with DMSO, is what I'm saying. Also, Flesh-eating bacteria doesn't "eat" DNA. What you are talking about is Necrotizing fasciitis, and that requires a penetrating wound or a person with Diabetes, and a failure of the acute immune response to activate, either due to a lack of circulation (typically in the fascia planes, thus fasciitis) or immunosupression. Even then, the bacteria that causes it is so fragile that the very probability of NF happening is extremely low. It's one of those things that doctors always watch for when presented with cellulitis, but less than 0.1% of cases ever occur.

The way I read it, this is looked at as a way of being rid of any DNA evidence in general. Considering the nature of the human body, that suggests a generalized flesh eating bacteria that doesn't limit itself to flesh and, in the process, breaks up genetic data enough to prevent it from being identified. Considering it's intended usage, this bacteria is also going to have to withstand normal cleaning procedures. In effect, he's creating a generalized metahuman eating bacteria that is available in a spray and a grenade.
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Cray74
post Aug 25 2005, 11:46 PM
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QUOTE (Sabosect)
Hahnsoo, he's talking about using a flesh-eating bacteria to remove DNA evidence. Those are not taken care of by standard immune responses by any stretch of the imagination. The vampire two blocks down may be immune to it, but those security guards are going to die.

No, he's talking about a bacteria that can handle organic matter without an immune system - like spilled blood on the floor.

Sprayable bacteria isn't beyond the pale and doesn't require DMSO. The powder sprays in stores today spray powder particles MUCH larger than bacteria.

QUOTE
What you are talking about is Necrotizing fasciitis,


Instead of obstructing this object, why don't you try to make it more viable?

For example, instead of forcing words into Nyxall's rules that aren't present (e.g., "What you are talking about is Necrotizing fasciitis"), try finding a better explanation, one that fits the suggested rules.

Some suggestions:
*Make the bacteria a thermophobe - it shuts down near human body temperature, but is happy in an air conditioned environment
*Make the bacteria highly identifiable to human immune systems, so it stands no chance in a live metahuman
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Nyxll
post Aug 26 2005, 01:02 AM
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Heh.... I was just trying to throw out an idea. I am really glad to see where the thread is going because it brought up points that I didn't think off.


So ...

From the makers of DNA-B-Gone comes the Organic Eliminator:

This brand new and innovative product by Dr Nyxll will quickly start to dissolve dead or living tissue on surface contact. The Organic Eliminator is the perfect a biowarfare weapon available in spray foam, explosive cannister and in dart gun formats. This wonderous product combines the cleaning power of DNA-B-Gone with the lethalness of gamma-anthrax in one convenient applicator.

Order now, operators are standing by.
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hyzmarca
post Aug 26 2005, 01:20 AM
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DNA-B-Gone is for suckers. Bleach is cheaper and faster. I prefer Clorox brand but any generic bleach will do.
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Nyxll
post Aug 26 2005, 02:02 AM
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You have the right to your wrong opinion. Bleach is not a complete solution. it will only affect surface area, it will not consume and dissolve larger chunks of organic matter.

If you ever watch CSI, criminals use bleach and cleaners all the time. They are not as effective as you would want them to be. It might mess up a drop of blood, but will not destroy a chuck of flesh that a bullet tears from your arm.

Accept no substitues.

Clinical tests have proven that DNA-B-Gone is more effective 10 out of 10 times.

DNA-B-Gone is thorough, cheap and proven.
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the_dunner
post Aug 26 2005, 02:10 AM
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QUOTE (Nyxll)
DNA -B- Gone is a generic bacteria that just eats mammal/reptile proteins. Doesn't affect plants. This is a new genetic organism.

I think what Hahnsoo was griping about was basically the terminology you chose to use. For the record -- an enzyme/molecule/bacteria/parasite of choice that disrupts protein probably won't have an effect on DNA. DNA is a Nucleic Acid. It's a whole other kind of molecule. In the lab, when we're isolating DNA for testing, we start off by treating cells with all kinds of harsh chemicals to destroy and remove the proteins first, then work with the DNA.

It's a cool idea, but I think your marketing department mixed up their terms. :D
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Nyxll
post Aug 26 2005, 02:19 AM
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QUOTE (the_dunner)

It's a cool idea, but I think your marketing department mixed up their terms. :D

Now that I can own up too.

It was just an idea, I didn't ask a SME (subject matter expert) since I do not know many biologists.

So do you have any feedback that could make this into a more viable product?

I just know that from forensics documentaries that I have seen, that bleech is not a complete solution. It gets rid of the visible traces, but doesn't get rid of all the biological evidence.
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Dingus_McGee
post Aug 26 2005, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE (Nyxll)
QUOTE (the_dunner @ Aug 25 2005, 09:10 PM)

It's a cool idea, but I think your marketing department mixed up their terms.  :D

Now that I can own up too.

It was just an idea, I didn't ask a SME (subject matter expert) since I do not know many biologists.

So do you have any feedback that could make this into a more viable product?

I just know that from forensics documentaries that I have seen, that bleech is not a complete solution. It gets rid of the visible traces, but doesn't get rid of all the biological evidence.

QUOTE
didn't ask a SME (subject matter expert)


I never thought I'd hear this term used by (assuming) non-military.

I like the idea, overall. Screw the "why," I'll make it available in my game.
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Cray74
post Aug 26 2005, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
DNA-B-Gone is for suckers. Bleach is cheaper and faster. I prefer Clorox brand but any generic bleach will do.

Bleach doesn't always work.

I've left this link in a highlighted search format. Just scroll all the way to the bottom:

Link on DNA analysis

2. Once contamination has been detected, it is important to discard all current reagents and clean relevant equipment and work surfaces. Bleach is useful for cleaning. However, not all equipment can be cleaned with bleach. Some laboratories effectively use gas flames to rid metal utensils of DNA.

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