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> SECKSY, nah, not what YOU think !
Serbitar
post Aug 27 2005, 12:57 AM
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I dont like this:

Skill: New Grade x2
Skillgroup New Grade x5
Attribute: new Grade x3

it will only result in everybody maxing attributes. And I dont like systems that have different versions of char creation and advancement. So I threw some ideas together.

Its basically an excel file that calculates the basic karma stuff for the house rules I introduced. No qualities or whatever they are called, as I still couldnt lay my hands on some SR4 book.

SECKSY:

Serbitars Extra Complicated Karma advancement SYstem

Rulechanges:
Reason
- changed physical attribute cost from "New Gradex3" to "New Gradex5"
avoid "max every attribute before any skill" behavior
- racial bonuses do not count when increasing attributes with karma
avoid attribute disadvantages for characters with high stat boni like trolls and orks
- increased cost for the awakend (magicians, technomancers)
compensate for cheaper magic and resonance costs (sill New Gradex3)
- increased starting karma to 550
compensation for higher attribute cots and new overall baseline
- changed resources to 3000 per Karma point
compensate for higher starting value
- chaged karma availible for knowledge skills to (logic + inuition)*10
new baseline


Get it HERE.

Still lots of typos and not much tweaking. Its made with a German version of Excel. Does this run on US versions ?

Feel free to comment. (But only if you are interested in the changed rules. If not, stay away and flame somebody else.)
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Elve
post Aug 27 2005, 01:39 AM
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QUOTE (Serbitar)
- racial bonuses do not count when increasing attributes with karma
avoid attribute disadvantages for characters with high stat boni like trolls and orks

Don't like this one...
In the new version hight att values are even better than before, so they should be more expensive...
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Serbitar
post Aug 27 2005, 01:44 AM
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A troll would pay 50 Karma to get strength/body from 9 to 10. And 200 from 1 to 10. This is not affordable. Trolls would get unplayable as they had to pay much more karma for their average starting stats than humans. We are talking about 50% and more.

And why should a troll pay more to reach his max than a human ? These costs are allready included in the metahuman costs.
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Triggerz
post Aug 27 2005, 03:53 AM
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QUOTE (Elve)
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Aug 27 2005, 02:57 AM)
- racial bonuses do not count when increasing attributes with karma   
avoid attribute disadvantages for characters with high stat boni like trolls and orks 

Don't like this one...
In the new version hight att values are even better than before, so they should be more expensive...

At (new rating)x5, the balance between attributes and skills would be pretty much re-established. I don't see why going from Strength 7 to 8 for a troll should be any more difficult than from 3 to 4 for a human either.

Any skills linked to body or strength? The bonuses for trolls obviously are huge there relative to any other racial bonus. Heavy Weapons, I guess. What else? I think it's only fair that trolls can use LMGs and up better than anyone else.
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Serbitar
post Aug 27 2005, 09:09 AM
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aye, pretty much my point.
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Triggerz
post Aug 27 2005, 08:13 PM
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Your little Excel magic is kinda neat. I think it could ease the pain of chargen quite a bit. Pushing this number up, that one down, and that other one... it's quite easy to lose track of the total as the sheet gets messier and messier. Plus, it would help the less mathematically-inclined.

My Excel skills are still not great, but I think I'll use a variation of your template to create easily printable character sheets (for both PCs and NPCs).
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Serbitar
post Aug 27 2005, 09:12 PM
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So, the German commands work with US Excel ?
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Triggerz
post Aug 28 2005, 01:20 AM
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Well, I'm Canadian and I'm not too sure where my copy of Excel is from, but yeah, it is an English version and everything works just fine. Good job!
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Serbitar
post Aug 28 2005, 03:55 PM
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Updated to version 1.2

History:
V 1.2
fixed knowledge skill cost again
changed metahuman costs
added spells
added some rule checks (values turn red when out of bounce)
punched in a standard joe character for startvalues
V 1.1
fixed knowledge skill cost
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hahnsoo
post Aug 28 2005, 03:56 PM
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Erm, maybe some sort of checkbox for those who do not want to prorate metahuman attribute costs by the positive racial modifiers.
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Serbitar
post Aug 28 2005, 04:18 PM
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That would be easy to do. But the problem in inplementing is more a design desicion than anything else. Obiously the aim is to house rule the whole character generation/advancement system. I already have implemented some major changes (physical attributes being 5x New Grade, but Edge, Resonance and Magic staying with 3x New Grade, specialisations being 4 Karma and so on . . .) so that either I would have to make a checkbox for every single change or a just one for the standard build point system and my house rules.

Furthermore:

With the stats being 5x new grade a human pays for his average stats (all 3s, edge 4):

8*25 + 45-10 = 235 (215 in my system) Karma

but a troll pays for his average stats (all 3s +/- racial mods)

65*2 (strength body) 20*2 (logic, intuition) 0*1 (charisma) 4*25 (agility, reaction, willpower, edge) = 270 (215 in my system)

In both systems he has to pay for being a troll, but if the race modifiers are included in attribute advancement a troll has to pay 35 karma more than the human just for his average stats in addition to the 50 points (in my system, elve with his BeCKS v4 suggests even 70 in addition to including race mods in advancement, which I dont agree with) he already paid for being a troll. Also, if you include race mods, the negative race mods are merly a cap on the maximum attribute rating, so a troll pays an equal ammount of karma for intelligence 5 as a human does. Finally and most important, a troll who wants to get 10 Strength has to pay 50 Karma for his last point. Nobody pays 50 Karma for just one point, which means no Strength 10 trolls ever. The 30 karma in my system arent cheap, but affordable.
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hahnsoo
post Aug 28 2005, 04:23 PM
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I'm just saying that among all of your suggestions for the system, it seems that this particular one is the one that people might differ the most in opinion over, and thus it might be prudent to checkbox it.
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Serbitar
post Aug 28 2005, 04:25 PM
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hm ok, thats a point. maybe ill include that one in a later version
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Serbitar
post Aug 28 2005, 09:51 PM
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updated to v 1.3 with drop down lists for easy skillgoup, skill and spell insertion
included complete list of all the skillgroups, skills and spells in the drop down menues
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Gort
post Sep 2 2005, 11:28 AM
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I agree with your changes to how much attributes cost. It was simply silly before that an attribute which gives bonus dice to 18 skills (agility) should cost less to raise than a group of 5 agility based skills. (firearms)
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