IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

8 Pages V  « < 2 3 4 5 6 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Katrina, Concern
Blacken
post Sep 2 2005, 04:20 PM
Post #76


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 133
Joined: 10-August 05
Member No.: 7,548



QUOTE (Jrayjoker)
QUOTE (Blacken @ Sep 2 2005, 11:05 AM)
At this point, I see a shoot-to-kill order on the charming folks trotting down the streets with TVs in their arms as almost reasonable. Do I like it? No. I'd rather not see Americans gunning down other Americans. But with the predatory gangs roaming the city and the insane looting, would I rather there be rape victims and burned-out/cleaned-out stores or dead rapists and looters?

Gotta go with the former on that one...

Let me get this straight, you'd rather there be rapists and looters than people stopping rapists and looters? Just checking.

...Wow, you entirely missed what I said, didn't you?

I said that I would rather there be dead rapists and looters than rape victims and burned-out/emptied stores.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sharaloth
post Sep 2 2005, 04:23 PM
Post #77


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 351
Joined: 17-February 05
Member No.: 7,093



Read your own statement again, Blacken. Former means 'first'. You said rape victims and burned out/cleanded out stores first, and dead rapists and looters second (latter).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Blacken
post Sep 2 2005, 04:25 PM
Post #78


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 133
Joined: 10-August 05
Member No.: 7,548



Holy Jesus. You're right; I'm an idiot. I'm having a similar discussion with IRL friends on AIM and I said it in reverse there and mixed myself up.

/me beats his face off the wall.

Mea culpa, mea culpa. Lemme go fix that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blakkie
post Sep 2 2005, 04:31 PM
Post #79


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263



QUOTE (Jrayjoker)
QUOTE (Blacken @ Sep 2 2005, 11:05 AM)
At this point, I see a shoot-to-kill order on the charming folks trotting down the streets with TVs in their arms as almost reasonable. Do I like it? No. I'd rather not see Americans gunning down other Americans. But with the predatory gangs roaming the city and the insane looting, would I rather there be rape victims and burned-out/cleaned-out stores or dead rapists and looters?

Gotta go with the former on that one...

Let me get this straight, you'd rather there be rapists and looters than people stopping rapists and looters? Just checking.

Such short memories. Such gunho reactions ended up getting a [increasingly innocent looking] Brazilian shot on the London Underground what, a month ago?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Velocity
post Sep 2 2005, 04:59 PM
Post #80


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 745
Joined: 26-July 03
From: Montréal, QC, Canada
Member No.: 5,029



QUOTE (blakkie)
Such short memories. Such gunho reactions ended up getting a [increasingly innocent looking] Brazilian shot on the London Underground what, a month ago?

Completely 100% innocent, actually. Work visa in order, travel papers up to date, no criminal record, sent money home to support aging parents. Absolutely zero links to anything more serious than a parking ticket. Jean Charles de Menezes was totally innocent.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheOneRonin
post Sep 2 2005, 05:14 PM
Post #81


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,109
Joined: 16-October 03
From: Raleigh, NC
Member No.: 5,729



Right. Because people who are totally innocent always run from the cops. God knows I do it all the time. I mean, it makes sense to feel from law enforcement when you've done nothing wrong. It's not like it will make you look guilty or anything.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
durthang
post Sep 2 2005, 05:35 PM
Post #82


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 78
Joined: 1-October 03
Member No.: 5,668



People who are scared run, not just the guilty.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Talia Invierno
post Sep 2 2005, 05:40 PM
Post #83


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,677
Joined: 5-June 03
Member No.: 4,689



de Menezes didn't run from the police. Which isn't to say that in a stressful situation, I might not have seen it differently, had I been in the shoes of the police.

Bringing in the military is not the same thing as martial law. So long as the military serves under civilian command (technically "peace officers"), martial law does not exist.

Please, let's leave as much of the outside politics out of this one as possible. There's two other threads for that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Critias
post Sep 2 2005, 05:42 PM
Post #84


Freelance Elf
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,324
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714



There's a world of difference between a dark-complected guy in a jacket running from cops in a recently-bombed subway, and gangs of thugs with machetes and knives raping women then killing them.

Most of the large groups ("packs") that are taking part in the barbaric actions (the violence, the extreme looting, etc), are known gang members of some of New Orleans' largest criminal organizations, with their numbers recently doubled/trebled by released prisoners. You aren't going to mistake them for an old woman stealing tylenol and canned foods. They are roving packs of predators taking what they want (be it women or material possessions or simply lives). They are what the US Marine Corps was created to fucking stomp on.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheOneRonin
post Sep 2 2005, 05:45 PM
Post #85


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,109
Joined: 16-October 03
From: Raleigh, NC
Member No.: 5,729



QUOTE (Critias)
There's a world of difference between a dark-complected guy in a jacket running from cops in a recently-bombed subway, and gangs of thugs with machetes and knives raping women then killing them. 

Most of the large groups ("packs") that are taking part in the barbaric actions (the violence, the extreme looting, etc), are known gang members of some of New Orleans' largest criminal organizations, with their numbers recently doubled/trebled by released prisoners.  You aren't going to mistake them for an old woman stealing tylenol and canned foods.  They are roving packs of predators taking what they want (be it women or material possessions or simply lives).  They are what the US Marine Corps was created to fucking stomp on.

Amen.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eldritch
post Sep 2 2005, 05:48 PM
Post #86


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 511
Joined: 19-August 02
Member No.: 3,139



Hey 'Ronin, it's kinda cool getting the inside scoop from someone on the scene.

Thanks for taking the time.

And good luck.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blakkie
post Sep 2 2005, 06:08 PM
Post #87


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263



QUOTE (Critias @ Sep 2 2005, 11:42 AM)
Most of the large groups ("packs") that are taking part in the barbaric actions (the violence, the extreme looting, etc), are known gang members of some of New Orleans' largest criminal organizations, with their numbers recently doubled/trebled by released prisoners.  You aren't going to mistake them for an old woman stealing tylenol and canned foods.

The problem is when they come upon the grey between. :( Grey like a latino that one glance at his photo, even by a pasty white boy like me, is entirely distiquishable from being from anywhere in Asia. Someone who's actions can be mistaken if you assume some key facts that are untrue.

Hey, send in the military. Damn straight. But revving up the gungho rhetoric like is not only is possibily going to over hype the Marines. These guys are pros, or at least semi-pros that have been doing a pro's job, and i'd hope that their CO's are going to be able to amplify any orders from above to motivate them. But it will also do severe damage to any attempt at public relations if someone that likely shouldn't get shot does.

P.S. The people that are vaguely smart [truely dangerous] have likely been watching getting ready to melt like butter into the background once a full fledged, mobile force shows up. You think they are going to try hold territory when platoons of AR toting soilders trained to work/fight in these kinds of conditions start rolling into town in force?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shadow
post Sep 2 2005, 06:16 PM
Post #88


Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill.
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,545
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Gloomy Boise Idaho
Member No.: 2,006



QUOTE (Critias)
There's a world of difference between a dark-complected guy in a jacket running from cops in a recently-bombed subway, and gangs of thugs with machetes and knives raping women then killing them.

Most of the large groups ("packs") that are taking part in the barbaric actions (the violence, the extreme looting, etc), are known gang members of some of New Orleans' largest criminal organizations, with their numbers recently doubled/trebled by released prisoners. You aren't going to mistake them for an old woman stealing tylenol and canned foods. They are roving packs of predators taking what they want (be it women or material possessions or simply lives). They are what the US Marine Corps was created to fucking stomp on.

Semper Fi. Those people who prey on the weak and the helpless are exactly the kind of people who need to get a bullet to the brain pan. Defending the weak and the helpless is what this country is about. And if I need to buy a frickin SKS and stockpile 2000 rounds of ammo to do it I should be allowed to.

How long did it take civilization to break down? 1 day? 2 on the outside? It will be another two weeks before it is restored. I feel for the people who are trapped their with the lunatics. I only wish they ALL had guns to defend themselves.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheOneRonin
post Sep 2 2005, 06:22 PM
Post #89


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,109
Joined: 16-October 03
From: Raleigh, NC
Member No.: 5,729



RE Eldritch:

I'm just glad I can help. The rumor-mill is full-bore, and I think people need to know what is REALLY going on down here. I can't be everywhere at once, but I figured this board is a good place to start.



RE Blakkie:

I've gotten word that the troops arriving in New Orleans are gonna basically be under civil police command. It seems like the people in charge, as upset as they may be over what is happening, are trying to be as delicate as possible. I don't think there will be any "shoot looters on site" orders, but I guarantee that any one who the run into that is armed will likely get only one change to comply.

Also, if you are not sure of the scope of the destruction in downtown New Orleans, the roaming gangs likely haven't been watching anything, or even listening to the radio due to the lack of power and pretty much all other resources in the area.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lady Door
post Sep 2 2005, 06:26 PM
Post #90


Dumpshock Widow aka Mrs Fisty
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,443
Joined: 3-January 05
From: Next to Him
Member No.: 6,929



Hey there... I've been checking out this thread and everyday it seems there's something else on the news that just about tears my heart out. I know it's not much but if there's someone down there or if you know of someone down there that can recieve packages and needs help (Especially if they have children.. I have three myself and I want to do something for them...) I would like to send what they need. Formula, diapers, water, clothes, non-perishables.. etc. If you know of someone that could use this or if you know of somewhere else I could post this, please let myself or Fist3.0 (my husband) know. We'll do whatever we can.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Demonseed Elite
post Sep 2 2005, 06:30 PM
Post #91


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,078
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 67



QUOTE
I've gotten word that the troops arriving in New Orleans are gonna basically be under civil police command. It seems like the people in charge, as upset as they may be over what is happening, are trying to be as delicate as possible. I don't think there will be any "shoot looters on site" orders, but I guarantee that any one who the run into that is armed will likely get only one change to comply.


Yeah, Lt. General Honore, who is in charge of the military effort, called the N.O. Chief of Police his "battle commander", so it sounds like the civilan police are ultimately in charge.

And the word from the reporters on site at the Convention Center has been clear that Lt. General Honore has been moving up and down the line of National Guard telling them to shoulder their weapons, that there will be no firing, and that it is a humanitarian relief effort, not Iraq.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Critias
post Sep 2 2005, 06:32 PM
Post #92


Freelance Elf
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,324
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714



QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 2 2005, 01:08 PM)
Hey, send in the military. Damn straight. But revving up the gungho rhetoric like is not only is possibily going to over hype the Marines. These guys are pros, or at least semi-pros that have been doing a pro's job, and i'd hope that their CO's are going to be able to amplify any orders from above to motivate them. But it will also do severe damage to any attempt at public relations if someone that likely shouldn't get shot does.

P.S. The people that are vaguely smart [truely dangerous] have likely been watching getting ready to melt like butter into the background once a full fledged, mobile force shows up. You think they are going to try hold territory when platoons of AR toting soilders trained to work/fight in these kinds of conditions start rolling into town in force?

Fuck public relations. People need to stop fucking shooting at support choppers, people need to not mob-hump trucks with supplies, people need to not shoot at National Guardsmen and cops and EMTs and firefighters. People need to not burn down their city, rape and murder young girls at knifepoint, and go apeshit fucking nuts because a nasty storm rolled through.

Send amphibious carriers through first. They'll be able to move however/wherever is needed. Keep 'em closed up tight, or let 'em stay open but be bristling with unshaven Marines carrying loaded weapons with orders only to shoot if fired upon. Have a psychological operations specialist (or just a gunny) aboard each one, with a megaphone (or just a gunny voice), stating loudly and clearly over and over again that in one hours' time they will come back, and anyone on the streets and impeding the progress of emergency vehicles through action, inaction, implied threat, gunfire, or even just screaming obscenities will get bloodied up by the Corp like Tina Turner by Ike.

One hour later, roll in with the supplies that need to get to wherever they need to get to, the choppers for airlifting those that need it, the water trucks, the empty trucks for carrying people out of their, and the boy scout troops to give people MREs, a bottle of gatorade, and help them pitch a fucking tent. If people -- people as warned an hour previously -- impede this progress, shoot them like you would any other terrorist.

Boom. Problem solved.

And, yes. The "truly dangerous" ones will melt away when the men in green show up. That's fine. I'd prefer they stick around and get their barbaric asses killed, but if they just leave -- fine. They won't hold the territory any more -- fine. They're not in the fucking way any more, are they? So the job still gets done. That's what counts.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blakkie
post Sep 2 2005, 06:46 PM
Post #93


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263



QUOTE (TheOneRonin @ Sep 2 2005, 12:22 PM)
I've gotten word that the troops arriving in New Orleans are gonna basically be under civil police command.  It seems like the people in charge, as upset as they may be over what is happening, are trying to be as delicate as possible.  I don't think there will be any "shoot looters on site" orders, but I guarantee that any one who the run into that is armed will likely get only one change to comply.

Ya, i hope. I just find it disturbing that that is coming from a Gov...and people are supporting it. It was my -exact- first reaction when the fellow was shot in London, even though the first "eye witness" stuff coming out said it was righteous, and a mayor was spouting the similar gungho rhetoric.

Now where she'll sit in the effective chain of command is not apparent. But if something goes wrong there is what people will see, and it might not all be perception.

QUOTE
Also, if you are not sure of the scope of the destruction in downtown New Orleans, the roaming gangs likely haven't been watching anIything, or even listening to the radio due to the lack of power and pretty much all other resources in the area.


I mean watching in a somewhat passive sense, and i was under the impression that cell coverage is still operating. If you have a car charger for your phone, and there are still some cars that are electrically functioning, they will have communications.

I also assumed that the Marines aren't going to come in all sneaky like. If they are there to restore order (as opposed to trying to catch people in the act) they are going to come in with a flury. Making big noise to let people, good and bad, know that the big dog is back and order WILL be restored. Or is that a bad assumption on my part?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheOneRonin
post Sep 2 2005, 07:02 PM
Post #94


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,109
Joined: 16-October 03
From: Raleigh, NC
Member No.: 5,729



QUOTE (Plan B)
Hey there... I've been checking out this thread and everyday it seems there's something else on the news that just about tears my heart out.  I know it's not much but if there's someone down there or if you know of someone down there that can recieve packages and needs help (Especially if they have children.. I have three myself and I want to do something for them...) I would like to send what they need. Formula, diapers, water, clothes, non-perishables.. etc. If you know of someone that could use this or if you know of somewhere else I could post this, please let myself or Fist3.0 (my husband) know. We'll do whatever we can.

I makes me smile to see so many people so willing to help during this crisis. Plan B, the best thing you and your husband can do is contact the Red Cross. Honestly, the most needed donation right now is money. Sending supplies is a bad idea because they keep getting all different kinds of items that they have to sort, check, and stage. With cash, they can get supplies in bulk, which will arrive when and where they need them to be. If you want to give to any organization more specific, shoot me an e-mail and I will help you find what you are looking for.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheOneRonin
post Sep 2 2005, 07:10 PM
Post #95


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,109
Joined: 16-October 03
From: Raleigh, NC
Member No.: 5,729



QUOTE (blakkie)

I mean watching in a somewhat passive sense, and i was under the impression that cell coverage is still operating. If you have a car charger for your phone, and there are still some cars that are electrically functioning, they will have communications.



Sorry bro, but it's worse than you think. Cell coverage is spotty at best, and only about 30% of calls are getting through, and that's here in Baton Rouge where we still have most of our towers. In and around NO, cell coverage is borderline non-existant...and even if you get a signal, you are not likely to be able to make any calls due to network congestion.

We (my company) are at the point where we have to use land lines for almost everything because of the unreliablity of cells.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jhsiao
post Sep 2 2005, 07:17 PM
Post #96


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 29-April 03
Member No.: 4,523



QUOTE (Critias)
Fuck public relations.  People need to stop fucking shooting at support choppers, people need to not mob-hump trucks with supplies, people need to not shoot at National Guardsmen and cops and EMTs and firefighters.  People need to not burn down their city, rape and murder young girls at knifepoint, and go apeshit fucking nuts because a nasty storm rolled through. 

Send amphibious carriers through first.  They'll be able to move however/wherever is needed.  Keep 'em closed up tight, or let 'em stay open but be bristling with unshaven Marines carrying loaded weapons with orders only to shoot if fired upon.  Have a psychological operations specialist (or just a gunny) aboard each one, with a megaphone (or just a gunny voice), stating loudly and clearly over and over again that in one hours' time they will come back, and anyone on the streets and impeding the progress of emergency vehicles through action, inaction, implied threat, gunfire, or even just screaming obscenities will get bloodied up by the Corp like Tina Turner by Ike. 

One hour later, roll in with the supplies that need to get to wherever they need to get to, the choppers for airlifting those that need it, the water trucks, the empty trucks for carrying people out of their, and the boy scout troops to give people MREs, a bottle of gatorade, and help them pitch a fucking tent.  If people -- people as warned an hour previously -- impede this progress, shoot them like you would any other terrorist.

Boom.  Problem solved.

And, yes.  The "truly dangerous" ones will melt away when the men in green show up.  That's fine.  I'd prefer they stick around and get their barbaric asses killed, but if they just leave -- fine.  They won't hold the territory any more -- fine.  They're not in the fucking way any more, are they?  So the job still gets done.  That's what counts.


Is territory what the bandits (let's stop using "looter") want? The "thunder run" concept worked initially in Somalia and Iraq, but ran into troubles later. Are we going to treat the bandits like an urban insurgency?

It might be hyperbole or the anger talking, but since we don't shoot people in Afghanistan or Iraq for screaming obscenities at troops (do we?), why would we treat US citizens worse? Or is that the psyops?

[smartass] So if I needed assistance, all I would need to do is shoot at a chopper, hide in my house, and wait one hour after the Bradleys roll to get food, water, shelter, and possible rescue?

Wouldn't alot of people in NO find that a fantastic deal? [/smartass]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Arethusa
post Sep 2 2005, 07:19 PM
Post #97


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,901
Joined: 19-June 03
Member No.: 4,775



QUOTE (blakkie)
I also assumed that the Marines aren't going to come in all sneaky like. If they are there to restore order (as opposed to trying to catch people in the act) they are going to come in with a flury. Making big noise to let people, good and bad, know that the big dog is back and order WILL be restored. Or is that a bad assumption on my part?

That is a reasonable assumption, but that sort of show of force (emphasis on show) may also be unlikely due to pr concerns. It is notable that a large amount of Bush's constituencency is affected and a larger amount will be watching closely; he and his administration may step a bit lighter than they would otherwise.

Moreover, there may not be manpower left for that sort of thing; a very sizable portion of our military is currently sandier.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PBTHHHHT
post Sep 2 2005, 07:21 PM
Post #98


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,174
Joined: 13-May 04
From: UCAS
Member No.: 6,327



QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
Sorry bro, but it's worse than you think. Cell coverage is spotty at best, and only about 30% of calls are getting through, and that's here in Baton Rouge where we still have most of our towers. In and around NO, cell coverage is borderline non-existant...and even if you get a signal, you are not likely to be able to make any calls due to network congestion.

We (my company) are at the point where we have to use land lines for almost everything because of the unreliablity of cells.

Back on 9/11, I had a heck of a time using my cell that day to contact my family/friends. I worked less than a mile from the Pentagon at the time, so I can only imagine the situation in NO. Even with all the cell towers in working order there was such a congestion.

I wonder how many towers are working in NO.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheOneRonin
post Sep 2 2005, 07:40 PM
Post #99


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,109
Joined: 16-October 03
From: Raleigh, NC
Member No.: 5,729



Just got an update. Here in Baton Rouge, Cingular is reporting 927 of their GSM/GPRS towers are completely non-functional. I don't have a clue what sort of % that is of their overall infrastructure, or how many other carriers' towers make be down.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shadow
post Sep 2 2005, 07:50 PM
Post #100


Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill.
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,545
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Gloomy Boise Idaho
Member No.: 2,006



I just got this email from the commissioners office (where I work) I rolled into my bosses office and said "Send me". The funny thing is I was talking to my wife last night and I just felt this overwhelming compulsion to go there and help.

QUOTE
Commissioner's Update
Friday, September 2, 2005

Fellow DHSS employees,

As we monitor and watch the situation in the Gulf Coast states, namely Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, following the large scale devastation left behind by Hurricane Katrina, we are all similarly moved to aid those in need.

Governor Murkowski has pledged our State’s commitment to help those in the South who are in need of assistance.

The Department of Health and Social Services will be coordinating with the Department of Military and Veteran Affairs to identify resources and provide assistance as quickly as possible. We expect to have a formal request for assistance through the Emergency Management Assistance Compact in the coming days. Local and Federal officials are still assessing damage from the storm and identifying needed resources.

If you wish to lend your support to recovery efforts, please do the following:

Inform your supervisor that you are interested in being part of any response team efforts from Alaska. DHSS is establishing single points of contact in divisions to collect information on volunteers with the skills we expect to be needed in the recovery effort.
Division directors should provide a list of the names of employees who are willing and able to be deployed for inclusion on a list that will be coordinated with other State agencies.
Read and understand the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s news release that contains information on ways to help. It’s available at:
http://www.fema.gov/press/2005/katrinadonations.shtm

Remember that the most important and immediate assistance you can provide is a cash donation to a legitimate relief organization.
Thank you in advance for your willingness to help our fellow Americans. With your giving spirit and compassion, Alaska will be able to provide relief to individuals in need.



I guess I got my chance. Any of you that work for state or federal agencies may get something similar, I encourage you all to do what you can.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

8 Pages V  « < 2 3 4 5 6 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th August 2025 - 09:46 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.