Dratted Astral Projection!, Just spoils the surprise! Options

[Polaris]

Cain,

Not necessarily. In the middle of a metroplex, astral space is likely to be fairly dirty. It is nowhere near as dirty as in Earthdawn, but you can't have watchers go screaming over every Tom, Dick, and Harry spirit that comes along the premises either. [OK, you could but you would get so many false alarms to make your security pointless.] Also bear in mind that watchers are dumb with truly hideous perception ratings....and they are weak to boot *and* there is a very limited number the mage can have active at any one time.

Don't get me wrong; watchers are great. I use them all the time, but they don't prevent astral recon.

In addition to that, the astral mage (or shaman) is likely to know he or she has been detected and if the mage is properly made, is more than a match for even the toughest of astral elementals or spirits since elementals and spirits don't have armor in astral space while the mage can (and often will)....and the mage can (and usually will) use sorcerery as unarmed combat and thus be vastly superior to all by the strongest of elementals.

I mention this because sending out even a guardian spirit of elemental after an astrally intruding mage is a good way to kill the elemental and it may or may not set off the general alarm. Even if it does, so what? Unless your goons are dual natured, there is nothing they can do to help.

In addition to all of *that*, an astral intruder using fast movement can be long gone....long before any called elemental or defending mage can arrive and watchers are too dumb to give a very good description of the intruder.

In short, even with Shedim, astral recon is here to stay and is the staple of a good solid shadowrunning team. You need to get used to it and adjust to it. The defenders will know this just as much as the shadowrunning team.....

-Polaris

[danbot37]

ok, I know this is kinda like the preverbial (did I spell that right?) cow from space or panther-hold-out-pistol-out-of-nowhere on the fly story saving type game mechanics, but what about using a powerful negative background on the area to prevent astral recon? Would it not be like a flashbang on nightvision kinda thing, if it was a particularly nasty background?not only could you stop a crucial part of your story from being given away (which you could us this maybe like once every few games to kepp from cheesing it up), but you might set up an interesting backstory when your team tries to investigate later, or if a tozic mage taps into it later or something. Another idea would be a random encounter while the astrally projecting players are out and about, and make sure (gm's are allowed to fudge on occasion, when necessary for story) that the meat bodies get hit. That should bring their attention away from anything else, and if they're on a mission based on a time factor, could prove to waste enough time to make the astral recon no longer possible.

[Polaris]

Danbot,

There are rules for astral hazing and background count in Magic in the Shadows, and a high background count can make astral recon dangerous.

However, it applies to astral defenders as much (if not more) than astral intruders. After all, who is more likely to have cleansing and filtering, the shadowrunning initiate, or the corp security mage?

In addition to that, it takes an unrealistically high background count before astral recon is no longer worth doing (4 or 5) and that is Auschwitz territory.....


-Polaris

[MrSandman666]

Wow, thanks! There where a few good ones since I came by last time!

Yeah, I guess setting the run up differently would have been a possibility. However, one of the fun points was that they were supposed to acquire a chip which the gang leader has hidden in a pretty awkward body cavity.

And when it comes to the haziness of astral space, dead matter is just as opaque in astral as in reality. You just can't make out what it is. But you can still count the rooms and have a general idea where they might be. Even if you don't know how they are connected, if all doors are closed (you won't be able to distinguish between walls and doors).

[Cain]

The point isn't to make astral recon impossible, but it shouldn't be a piece of cake, either. Legwork is a whole set of challenges in and of itself. An astral mage can (and likely should) be able to deal with astral security, but there is the risk of setting off a general alarm, making things more difficult for the insertion team.

All recon needs to be balanced against the possibility of discovery. How much are you willing to risk for how much intel? Sure, you can astrally discover the entire layout of the facility, but do you want to risk warning your target in the process? Each team will need to make that decision for themselves.

Fast movement prevents mages from learning anything useful, so I don't consider that a problem. However, you're spot-on about the background count. You'd honestly need a mana warp to be certain of scaring off astral intrusions; and since those only really occur on Earth around nuclear blast sites, I wouldn't think it makes for any sort of desireable security.

[Polaris]

Cain,

My point was that you could use fast movement to escape long before anything capable of detecting you and realizing what you were could find you. In short the guardian comes along and finds nothing.

This is not so different from a Decker with a bad login-to-host check. In both cases you jack-out (and fast movement is the astral equivalent of jacking out) and wait a bit for the furor to die down and then try again. Usually this is NBD since you will be reconning well in advance of insertion (or at least my teams do).

-Polaris