Technomancer Sticker Shock, Or "Yikes, where did all my BP's go?" Options

[Feshy]

One of the first things I noticed after skimming through the SR4 PDF where how cool technomancers sounded. So, I decided to make up a technomancer PC to see it in numbers. I glanced at the sample characters, and I noticed a distinct power difference in the Hacker and the Technomancer. The technomancer's skills and complex forms are not up to the same standards as the hacker, it seems. I wondered why, but after making one, I have some answers. Technomancers are Build Point eating machines. Let's break it down (or, skip to the conclusion if you've got a short attention span; I do tend to ramble on):

Attributes

For the Hacker:
There are three attributes that are used in decking (as it used to be called), they are Intuition, Logic, and Willpower. Intuition is used solely for your initiative. While important, if you need a few BP, you can skimp here a bit (so long as you have a good response chip). Logic is used for three tests that I've found: copying passkeys, hardware ID spoofing (you can also spoof ID in software and avoid this test), and copy protection cracking. It seems to me that none of these tests are particularly important to a hacker; thus logic doesn't need to be a high priority. Lastly, you have willpower, which is used to resist black IC and to jack out if hit by black IC. Unless you plan to often fight black IC, you don't need herculean willpower. Don't skimp too much, though, or your hoop is gonna get fried someday. Let's figure you can probably get by with 3's or 4's for these three stats, though of course it is a matter of personal preference. That's 60 BP to 90 BP (higher if you want a charismatic decker?).

For the Technomancer:
In addition to the above tests, your mental attributes also comprise your living persona. If you are playing in a reasonably powered game, I'm guessing (from the archetypes) that you'll want numbers somewhere around five for your persona stats. In addition, you'll also need charisma as a biofeedback filter. So for stats, you'll probably wind up with something along the lines of fives for the first three attributes, and four for charisma. That's around 150 BP, leaving you with few points for other attributes. Hope you're an orc, or you'll probably be quite hurt when the lead starts to fly.

Resonance

Hacker's don't get it; 0BP.

Technomancers will need 5 to take advantage of the attributes we took earlier. That's 45 BP (counting the 5 to be a technomancer)

Skills

Hackers can take advantage of good group skill deals on Electronics skill group and the Cracking skill group to get all the skills they will need. Or, if you prefer (and have the points, you can break them up as desired. We won't list the BP for these skills, because it will be the same for technomancers.

Technomancers will need all those skills, plus the Tasking group. Pick that up at the skill group max of 4, for 40 BP. Sprites are good.

Comlink

Hackers will need a commlink. A cyber comlink is surprisingly cheap, and most likely the way to go for a hacker (I miss the term "decker" already -- but at least it's not changed to "commer"). What do we do for stats? Well.. prices are cheap, and most ratings are available. So let's go as high as we can. Cyber Comlink is 2,000 yen base. Grabbing the Matrix Program Upgrade costs, it's rating x 500 for system and firewall (p 321), which is 6,000 yen for both at 6. Hardware is only available up to 5 at chargen. It's 4,000 yen and 1,000 yen for Response 5 and Signal 5, respectively. Toss in 5,000 yen for a hot-modified SIM module. That's a total of 18,000 yen, which comes to 4 BP with 2k to spare.

Technomancers don't need a comlink, 0BP for them.

Programs (or Complex Forms)

Since our hacker has a comlink with a System of 6, and all programs except agents are available at 6 at chargen, let's just buy all the programs. At rating 6. Doesn't leave us much room for character advancement, of course, but this is just an exercise. Common programs are rating x 100 at rating 6. Hacking programs are 10 times that. Agents are only available up to rating 4 at chargen, and are rating x 2,500. As far as I can count, there are 7 common use programs, and 15 hacking programs. Remember not to run all those at once though, or your response will lag! That's a total of 94,200 yen, or 21 BP (with another 800 to spare).

Our technomancer can have only up to 10 Complex Forms at character generation, based on our logic attribute of 5. We are limited to rating 5 for complex forms as well. So, pick your favorite 10 programs out of the list of 22, at rating 5. That's 50 BP. You'll have to thread the rest as needed I guess.

Adding it all up

The hacker BP total for all of the above: 85 to 115 BP.

The Technomancer BP total for all of the above: 285 BP!!!

Conclusions
Let's look at what we get for those costs. The hacker has all programs, and most things at six instead of five. That's a one-die advantage. The technomancer has a small attribute advantage, and only half the programs. Yet the technomancer costs almost 200 more BP. You could bring the Hacker's attributes up to equal the Technomancer's (though it won't help your hacker much), and there would still be 110 BP difference, with all the advantages going to the (cheaper) hacker.

Certainly, technomancers have some advantages -- unlimited progression on resonance, if you have piles and piles of karma to throw at it. Threading can't be seen as an advantage though, as a hacker can afford ALL the programs for substantially less BP than the technomancer could, even if it where allowed. Sprites, of course, rock. But... are they worth 200 BP, and less programs?

Of course, not being a min/max'er, I'll probably still try to play one. But the price difference is worth noting -- I don't want anyone else winding up with the sticker shock I did.

Oh, and Hoi, chummers. I'm new.

[Crusher Bob]

I've been running the numbers for SR4 Becks and the technomancer dosen't look good from that end either. The 35 BP points spent for complex forms turns into 93 karma which is a prettly hefty chunk of points (the archtypes run around 450 karma on average).

They'll probably need 'free' points for forms, based on resonance (or maybe logic?)

[L.D]

Hell, that's nothing new. They got screwed in SR3 as well.

In SR3 you can get a decker with 5D6 in initiative, but maximum for an otaku is 4D6...

[SL James]

That makes perfect sense.

[Oracle]

In my opinion it's good to have technomancers at a slight disadvantage compared to hackers. Otherwise there would be no hackers anymore, because everybody wants to play a cool new technomancer. Of course I have to admit, that I always hated Otaku.

[toturi]

But in SR3, the MPCP for a standard 120BP otaku can hit 9 easy while a 120 decker max is 7 at standard avail. It would seem the technomancers are screwed at chargen from the info I see on the forums.

[prionic6]

[prionic6]

Also, a technomancer can use threading to make up complex forms they don't have or to bump up their ratings. This causes fading, though. But it means they can start with far less complex forms.

[Synner]

And then there are sprites...

[prionic6]

Sprites were mentioned in the first post :)

[Bull]

Technomancers vs Hackers is the same discussion as Adepts vs Sammies, I think.

Basically, the Adept/Technomancer will start off weaker, but has the potential for further advancement than their technological counterparts. The Sammy/Hacker starts off cheaper or more powerful (or both), but will eventually run into a cap on their ability to upgrade due to essence limits and the like.

Bull

[Synner]

[prionic6]

[prionic6]

[Feshy]

[Feshy]

[prionic6]

There is more to it: it is perfectly possible (but expensive) to start with a 7 in response or system OR an 8 in firewall OR even an 9 in bio-feedback-filter. It seems system is not limited to response and complex forms are not limited to system. At least I didn't find it... edit: see below

You can start with a technomancer that could be veeery good at some specific tasks. He won't be able to do much else but that's what otaku always were.

edit: ah sorry. Every attribute of the living persona is limited to resonance.

[Gorath]

Hi everyone,

if 6 is the maximum for System/Response and programms used it seems that most hackers are finished and maximized very soon. You need 110 karma to improve both skill groups to 6. And to improve the software/hardware you can use time/money earned during this time.

Gorath