 AR Zones, Don't you love them?! |
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 Sep 6 2005, 08:56 PM
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#51
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Manus Celer Dei  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802  |
Right, it's time for me to bow out for a day or two and cool down. If no one else has explained it by then I'll pick it up again.
~J |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:00 PM
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#52
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
"sorry sir, we dont have to care. we are a megacorporation" :D
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Sep 6 2005, 09:01 PM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 916 Joined: 26-August 05 From: The land between the north , the south and the midwest. Member No.: 7,626 |
Idiocy or genius? Marketing genius, that is. Think about it; you're a corp and you generally end up giving many of your employees their comms. (Okay, they're buying it with their taxes but we don't call it that) Do you enable them to shut off the spam? Don't you want them to see the spam? If they are in your office building during the day and a corp-owned apartment at night, what spam is bad spam? Today we have cell phones that are artificially locked to one carrier, with hardware features that are enabled or disabled based on the carrier's planned pricing schema, computers given out at schools that kids are accused of hacking if they run iTunes, ad-sponsored internet and spyware and you really think that in the future setting of corporate jurisdictions that people would be allowed to disable the advertising? In the future only criminals will have spam blocking. |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:05 PM
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#54
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
"comlink blocking spam detected. termination of commie traitor user authorized" :rotfl:
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Sep 6 2005, 09:07 PM
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#55
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
You explained It, i got It, i rejected It. Why? The short version is finding fault in your assumption that highest security will be chosen over functional use and crappy design effort. History has repeatedly shown otherwise. Also because it's a game and the concept makes for more fun play than being a nitpicking turd worrying over the minute technical details about this and that. YMMV. |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:25 PM
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#56
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
So, being a guy without an SR4 to reference, lemmie ask a really simple question...
Is it possible to firewall and immunize your computer so that malicious crap like spamzones don't bother you? I'm looking at it like this: a windows 2000 box, when installed and put on the internet, has a median time-to-compromise of about 20 minutes, according to security studies I've read. Yes, on average, only 20 minutes until your computer gets compromised when you don't take steps. Now, on the other hand, my home computer is pretty damn rock solid when it comes to getting by without popups, data mining cookies, malicious active X, etc. I *assume* it's possible to immunize your computers, your cyberware, and your senses. Is it? Because if not, that's a huge reason not to have any cyberware, ever, at all. |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:46 PM
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#57
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 21-June 04 From: Germany Member No.: 6,429 |
If a device is hackable it can be targeted by spam. Most Users will have a firewall of 1 or 2. An agent loaded with exploit and edit woulb be able to do it. And don't tell me it's illegal.
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Sep 6 2005, 10:01 PM
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#58
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Well, my concern is 'are there preventative measures available to non-specialized characters', more than 'will Joe Average be able to defend himself?'
And as to rote-spam machines gaining illegal access to someone's pan via a frame... If a basic, cheap-o spam box can bypass a firewall rating 1 or 2, the companies making those security measures have no business calling them security measures. *G* |
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Sep 6 2005, 10:08 PM
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#59
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
MMDV, thanks. I think it's a ridiculous addition. I'd leave it out if I were GMing 4th (not likely). Why? Because to me it's the same as putting every little fantasy monster in SR just to please the D&D players (of which I am one, and it still pissed me off to see "dryads and cyclops and dark elves <read:drow>" in the freaking game). It's lame, it's only there as a "hehehe, look what we put in", and frankly the only reason I can see a GM actively using it for in a game is to fuck with the players, and there are far less petty/stupid ways of doing that. :cyber: I could see the version where you walk up to a soda machine, and a 3d holo pops up when you're within 3 feet with a hot elf chick telling you how great FizzyPop is, but having that being fed to and generated by your own 'ware? And as was mentioned before, the norms might put up with that shit, but a runner sure as hell wouldn't. There's no way in hades that a runner wouldn't figure out a way, or pay someone to figure out a way, to filter that crap out. That said, use it all you like. It's your game. I just didn't care for the idea that not liking it somehow meant being a "nitpicking turd" as you put it. |
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Sep 6 2005, 10:12 PM
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#60
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
As soon as you run your comlink in 'passive' mode, this spam is gone.
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Sep 6 2005, 10:15 PM
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#61
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 21-June 04 From: Germany Member No.: 6,429 |
Another question: How can a commlink differentiate between a normal device sendig AR information about how it can be used (with "arrows" and the stuff) and a spam sender sending an image or holo as a "panel"?
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Sep 6 2005, 10:19 PM
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#62
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
It would need an active program to "read" the AR data packets and filter them based on algorithms (just like today's Spam blockers). |
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Sep 6 2005, 10:30 PM
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#63
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Worrying that it isn't realistic? Yup, that's where i'd rank that. -Especially- when the worry is based on faulty assumptions. P.S. I doubt that mfb of all people suggested putting it in just cuz. |
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Sep 6 2005, 10:41 PM
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#64
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Spam zones will actually be good places to have meets and similar, as it won't be a surprise to find many people switching their comms off in such zones. Therefore, lurking and setting up ambushes make a deal of sense in all the Dead, Static, and Spam zones.
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Sep 6 2005, 11:03 PM
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#65
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
heh, have never stoped any real life companys form doing just that :silly: |
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Sep 7 2005, 12:36 AM
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#66
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 916 Joined: 26-August 05 From: The land between the north , the south and the midwest. Member No.: 7,626 |
Yeah, the same defense against someone hacking your gun works in spam zones without showing up as a dangerous criminal: carry 2 comms. One Comm is a judas goat decoy; it's your generic low-end unit with all the default settings and loaded with your public persona (legal or otherwise). The other is your "working" Comm with encryption, a decent firewall, and running in stealth mode. And hacking a Comm will likely end up tantamount to an act of agression between megacorps. I mean, if a junior VP of Renrakan Widgets bops down to the mall for a quick bowl of noodles away from the board room and gets his Comm hacked with spam by The Gap you can be sure there will be some retribution. |
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Sep 7 2005, 12:42 AM
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#67
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
This becomes really important when owning a implanted commlink, too, as one can hardly ditch it. ;) |
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Sep 7 2005, 03:20 AM
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#68
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
You should be able to reassign a identifiers to it though? |
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Sep 7 2005, 05:37 AM
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#69
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that, or the laws which regulate such zones, combined with intelligently-designed security systems that automatically block anything which registers as being overly distracting (eg, your highway example). VR has been around for four decades, in SR, and every simsense trick you can think of to pull in AR has more than likely already been pulled and countered in VR. sure, you could hack someone's AR interface and fill it with black squares while they're doing 120mph down the freeway. but doing it legally, without tripping the user's own basic security countermeasures, after forty years of ASIST and nearly a century in the trenches of the spam war? i'm going to have to go with "no fuckin' way" for a thousand, jack. |
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Sep 7 2005, 05:48 AM
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#70
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I just have this great mental image of those adds that always pop up "Shoot the cowboy and win a latptop" with a little cowboy that jumps all over the place, and you can't get rid of the damn pop up, because the 'X" is at the far left, and as soon as you scroll over, it extends its' self, so you're perpetually trying to get the 'X" instead of the damn cowboay, so eventually you have to lock and up and go to task manager to close the damn thing stopping EVEYRHTING you're doing.
Except it's been spammed into the street sams smartlink when he's trying to pop a gaurd, and all he sees is the stupid cowboy. |
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Sep 7 2005, 06:07 AM
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#71
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Punch the monkey! Punch the monkey! :love:
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Sep 7 2005, 06:22 AM
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#72
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Target Group: Members Posts: 64 Joined: 17-December 04 Member No.: 6,886 |
Wait a bit. There are already plans to use the geolocation of your cell phone, cross-indexed with marketing databases, to send you text messages with targeted advertising. I'm not making that up. I used to work at a company that was actively developing the technology. Give it about 5 years. |
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Sep 7 2005, 06:26 AM
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#73
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I'm looking forward to it. Nothing like a little extra income under the junk fax laws. ~J |
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Sep 7 2005, 12:53 PM
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#74
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Target Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 14-July 04 Member No.: 6,482 |
having just rea teh section in question, it seems that joe schmoe, Yuor averge wage slave, is Totaly Screwed ™, just by walking down the street. it's stated that there are bots out there that specialise in getting arround firewall 1, and 2. which means that with the cheapest comlink solution (300Y, REsponse 1, fw 1, Signal2, system1) is just going to be flooded by popups, the second that he walks in the door of his local "spam zone". Ok. you think. Just stick the damn thing in passive mode. that's when the "acme spambot 2000" kicks in, an detects, and then by-passes the firewall, and (knowing most corps) sticks 3000 popups all over everything. Then the local mall security bot hits him with a spotlight, and yells at him for not running an active PAN. Lets face it people. Joe and Jane Q public are basically going to be facing a constant barrage of spam, popups, ads, and other unsavorys 24/7. Talk about long term brainwashing. hell, lets just think about that for a second. Most people on the streets are going to be subject to so much advertising so much of the time, that they're just going to tune it out. That's why the references to
are just so damn worrying. Not only from a "lets stick it to the public", but also "viral Meme's and Spyware" Today spyware mostly just sits there, and sees what websites you're visiting, and occasionally checks to see what software you're running. now imagine the 2070 version. It knows where you've been.(GPS) it knows where you're going (it has access to your date-planner). It knows who you call, and where they live (adress book), what their preferences are (assuming that you've atleast looked at their personal data on their own PAN). More worryingly, it can also be used to see if you've been in any of the corps competitors shops, and then, thanks to that Viral Meme, Start spamming Everyone arround you. Be afraid people. Be VERY VERY afraid. AS for your average runner, the only reall solution seems to be to have a sacrificial Comlink, with a decent rating fake ID on it, and to have all your cyberware and running gear slaved (nay, HARDWIRED) into a second, top 'o' the line, Firewalled to hell and back, Anti spam / detection Sprite/frame running comlink, that stays "dark" for 99% of the time. |
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Sep 7 2005, 01:20 PM
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#75
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
When you can hack, yes - it takes some time, though.
Cyberware can communicate with each other without using wireless. So if you get yourself an implanted commlink/datajack, there is no need even buying wireless-enabled ware. |
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