hacker adepts, ouch! Options

[MortVent]

Just playing around with the char creation rules and found out how to make the ultimate hacker.

Take adept as a quality and put points into magic.

Take improved ability with the hacking/electronics skills you need (max= magic or skill rating whichever it lower).

Suddenly you've got a hacker that can easily (in time by maxing magic) have insane hacking rolls ( 6 dice from software, 6 from skill, 6 from improved ability). And to boot seen no mention of the ability not working in VR.

[hahnsoo]

Ick. Other anomalies include the "uber doctor" (Improved Ability in First Aid/Medicine/Cybertech), the demolitions master (Improved Ability in Demolitions), and the Forgery master. I'm not sure I like that at all, especially given the cheap cost of Improved Ability.

[Crusher Bob]

Don't forget the uber-face, as improved social skills are only .25 magic points per.

Consider 'Mr. Scary' The adept with 20 dice in indimidate:

(Intimidate 6, specialization, 5 dice imp intimidation, elf, base cha of 7)

He is tied to a chair and being watched over by two armed 'enforcer' archetypes (trolls btw)

Social modifiers:

Subjects are physically imposing -3
Subjects outnumber the character -2
Subject is wielding a weapon -2

Subject doesn't think character will try 'anything stupid' +2 to subjects die pool

The enforcers base pool for resiting intimidation is 6 (willpower + intimidation)

As there are two of them they get a +1 (use of social skills against groups)

So Mr Scary is rolling 13 dice
the trolls are rolling 9 dice

This means that Mr scary is able to get one net success against the enforcers. They decide to go get some more enforcers to help out (they'll be back in just a second...)

But this gives time for Mr. Scary to squirm out of the chair, and arm himself with a handy crowbar...

Then, the original 2 enforcers come back with 2 of their friends. Now Mr Scary is facing down 4 armed trolls.

Social modifiers:

Subjects are physically imposing -3
Subjects outnumber the character -2
Subject is wielding a weapon -2

Mr Scary has a weapon +2

They are no longer convinced we won't 'try something stupid'

As there is no way Mr Scary can beat 4 trolls in a fight, he's going to use his edge (of 3) to help out

Mr Scary is rolling 18 exploding dice, getting an average of 7 successes

The Enforcers a rolling 9 dice getting an average of 3 (edit) succeses
4 net succeses is enough to send them on their way...

[edit]
Whoops, I somehow got 4 average successes on 9 dice, should have been 3.
[/edit]

[mintcar]

That IS scary. On the other hand it´s magic, so who´s to say it wouldn´t work?

[Supercilious]

Adepts are walking gods incarnate. I like that they got better but... This is a little over the top.

[Brazila]

Actually according to the book you can only go up to 1.5 times skill in total dice from adept powers.

[Crusher Bob]

Huh?



Page 187, in the Improved ability section:

"You cannot have more additional dice than your base skill rating."

Same page 'Adept Powers":

"The maximum level an adept may have in any power is equal to the adept’s Magic attribute."

[Crusher Bob]

Here's a build for Mr. Scary:

Elf 30 points

Cha 7, all other stats 3 (170 points)
Magic 5 (40 points)
Edge 3 (20 points)

Social Group (Con, Etiquette, Negotiation, Leadership) 4 (40 points)
Intimidate 6 (Specialization: Mental) (26 Points)

Adept Powers:
[some editing here]

Kinesics 5 (2.5 Power points)
Improved Ability: Intimidate 5 (1.25 power points)
Improved Ability: Con 4 (1 power point)

.25 power points left


Edges/Flaws: (Net 0 Points)

Adept 5 Points
First Impression 5 Points
Guts 5 Points
Sensitive System +15 points

Die Pools

Con 20
Etiquette 16
Negotation 16
Leadership 16
Intimidate 23 (+2)

This costs 326 BP, leaving you 74 BP do get contacts, gear, other skills, etc

[edit]
Heh, I noticed that they kept kinesics.
[/edit]

[Siege]

I was twitching about keeping Kinsenics, but after reading about the changes to the target number concept, it's not as bad as it was.

Yes, adepts are downright spiffy - I don't know about spiffier, but a specialist focusing on one skill or a specific set of skills will manage to rack up serious dice pools.

By removing the notion of target number mods versus overall dice pools throws the inherent balance of power to the "more dice" people - in the old systems, cybernetic folk had the advantage by being able to influence target numbers.

In the new system, since it's all about skill pools, adepts do have a clear advantage. Except for those pesky skill point issues.

Although adept hackers are gonna be downright scary. :grinbig:

-Siege

[Raghnar]

I think Brazila refers to p.63

[blakkie]

Cool, so there goes a large portion of the drive behind that house rule someone suggested of limiting Adepts powers to 3 levels at start-up.

[hyzmarca]

It also encourages adepts to be generalists rather than specialists and makes high-powered campaigns ever more difficult to pull off.

[blakkie]

[hahnsoo]

Improved Ability does not count against skill limits, as "Improved Ability does not actually improve a skill's rating, it only provides additional dice for tests involving that skill". p187 So you can still max out up to the base skill. This is still scary.

[mintcar]

[hahnsoo]

I did, and I think it's unclear. If one accepts that Improved Ability dice count for the modified skill instead of merely adding dice to the dice pool for tests, then it is true. But the wording on Improved Ability says otherwise (not that there are any other powers that add to a skill for Adepts). I'm not saying that I'm right, you're wrong... I'm saying that this is something that needs an official statement from the devs, even an Erratum. If anything, it's poor writing, either on the skill cap or the Improved Ability entry.

EDIT: Yes, but it says "it only provides additional dice for tests involving that skill", like a Medkit would add bonus dice to a test based on its rating. Nowhere in the text does it say that Improved Ability explicitly adds bonus dice to a skill, although it is certainly implied. This is just like the confusion over the attribute caps and the role that things like Titanium Bone Lacing and Combat Sense play in them. There needs to be an official statement or Errata to clear it up.

[mintcar]

Hmm. You´re right. It does say that it´s a bonus to the test, doesn´t it? As in the dice pool, not the skill. Tricky. Errata please! The power needs to state that it is in fact a modifier to the skill. Better yet they could clearafy in every power and cyberware discription if the modifier counts towards the attribute or skill cap in plain text.

[Siege]

1.5?

Which means with a max of 6, then an adept could get an additional (x1.5) 9 dice in improved ability?

So, hypothetically, the super-specialist could throw 6 (skill) + 6 (stat) + 9 (IA) = 21 dice?

Color me...terrified.

-Siege

[Autarkis]

No, I think he means 6 (skill) + 3 (IA) + 6 (stat) = 15 dice.

Where the 6 and the 3 is the total skill at 1.5.

[blakkie]

EDIT: A bit slow.

I believe the correct way to interpret that is that the maximum is 15. Not 21 The "modified maximum", not the "maximum modifiers" means that your IA tops out at 3 for skill 6.

[Mal-2]

[Catsnightmare]

LOL. Streamlined my ass.

[blakkie]

[Catsnightmare]

No, just repeating myself and laughing at the problems with the "new streamlined system"

[blakkie]