Player Actions and Consequences, ...or, when characters do stupid things Options

[Faenor]

Sorry for the delay in postings; I'm at work as we speak.

First of all, to address the Star finding his home address; He has a SIN, he's actually a registered businessman who does "supernatural troubleshooting".

And my goal was to create a situation where he would have to surrender as opposed to his "I never give up" mentality, and it would create a case where you have to go outside your comfortable boundaries. Also, it's a chance for the othe characters to save him and bring about more of a group interaction. He also had Imp Invisibility as a spell; he could have just waited them out as well but insisted on the fireworks.

[Trax]

Yeah, that's pretty stupid.

[interchange]

Yeah, if he's SINed, he's SOL even if it wasn't DocWagon who turned him in.

[Fox1]

[Mugzug]

Actually this is a good chance for him to hire a lawyer. He could easily argue that he had no 'intent to kill' but was using his right to self defense. Then the lawyer could argue if that is why the warrant was issued, then it was an 'illegal search and siezure and the weapons charges would have to be dropped. He'd be left with a weapons charge for the grenade launcher...

But a simple plea bargain to pay a fine and do community service (see a shadowrun there?) would easily get him off of that and make the prosecutor seem like they got something. Also they may or may not give him the 'evidence' back since it was illegally siezed. A simple 'fine' (bribe) to get them back may be in order.

Of course to pay off all of these fines, and bribes may require a loan from Tony the Loanshark.

Yeah I took a class on Law, sue me. ;)

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Paul]

I think minus the other three players ending up dead you did okay. If I were in your shoes, I'd have cobbled up a reason to either seperate them from this ass whomping, or a shoe string scifi budget way of keeping them alive.

My only question is have you tried talking with this player? I am assuming you have, and that it failed to get the results you and the other players were looking for. Am I right?

[Faenor]

well, I think what I'm going to do is have the player be put in jail for a couple weeks, and since he took the Distinctive Flaw, have all his contacts remember that. Also, a good lawyer (anyone have an idea of what they would cost in SR?) will manage to get this plead down, and cost most, if not all, of his resources. Let the character walk away? Or do you think that I can salvage this?

to Paul:
fortunately, the other player characters were investigating on the other side of town. It was the phys ad who got the call stating "Guys. I'm in trouble. I'm under arrest. And they're saying I'm gonna have a new roomie/ wife troll named Spire who's only four foot standing, but six foot three on his back. Should I be worried?"

All joking aside, I think I'm just gonna take ALL of the character's weapons and have the Star harrass him a VERY long time. That way, he gets to keep his character, and I still get to punish him for the sheer audacity of using a military weapon in a crowded apartment complex.

Regardless, I thank everyone for the input. And I honestly didn't mean to turn this into a debate for internation extradition! :)

[Mugzug]

Don't forget community service and debt! So many evil plothooks in there. If you make it hurt enough, he might even develop a mental flaw for fear of using weapons in public! Or maybe before his lawyer pleads it down Lonestar psychotropically induces a fear of such things into him.

[hyzmarca]

[tisoz]

Another idea is upon his regaining consciousness, DocWagon lets him know Lonestar is waiting for someone fitting his description. Then showing him some brochures/ads for plastic surgery and hinting something could probably be worked out. Definitely makes money for DocWagon by the extra services and keeping a paying customer on the streets.

Sounds like you skipped this option though and had him wake up in a jail cell.

[Fox1]

[fistandantilus4....]

thanks for responding Faenor. I think I agree that since the character had a SIN, it wouldn't matter if DOC Wagon handed him over or not. THere's so much surveillance in '64 that the'd find him for sure. I think firing an unregistered GRENADE LAUNCHER in an APARTMENT is certainly grounds for a warrant to lookf for more. So give him some jail time, then slap him with the POLICE RECORD flaw.

[weblife]

The player should have been informed by the GM that DW might turn him in to LS.

With Imp. Invisibility he could have limped outta there with noone the wiser.

Also, even if DW took the player into their care, you should have left him an option on the way.

You, the GM, ambushed the player, which he survives, and then puts him into a situation where you choose the only outcome. - That right there is railroading.

The player was due some additional info on what might happen if he let DW take him away. You didn't supply it.

As for whether the character should even exist, thats a whole other beef. The way you took this player out would have been frustrating to him.

[fistandantilus4....]

I'm sorry, but I think the player should have thought about some of the consequences of firing a grenade launcher in a building. It is called Shadowrun.

"Quiet in, quiet out." "Like a cat one might say."
- The Mayfairs - Hudson Hawk

[Ed Simons]

[nezumi]

See, this is the difference between a real SIN and a fake SIN. Namely, the fake SIN is FAKE. It has no real information on it! Hence, if they match you up to the fake SIN, it leads to a fake address of a fake person and his fake children. This is also why shadowrunners, as a general rule of thumb, don't have SINs.

Assuming this guy registered his house and weapons on his real SIN, he should expect a knock on his door in about a week (or less). After all, he has the distinctive feature flaw, a legitimate SIN, an unusual weapon and the cops have video footage. It's not hard to put two and two together.

[Ed Simons]

[fistandantilus4....]

[hyzmarca]

[Faenor]

Okay, I'll give my interpretation of what happened as a GM. I really did not attempt to railroad the character. And he is a veteran as well; he's been playing for over seven years.

Essentially, the character was checking on one of his contacts because a rival runner team pulled off a heist and he was hired to bring back the object (a sculpture made of orichalcum; it was in a corp's "private" art collection so thats why he was using a runner team) and the head of the perpetrators. Well, the group did not make very quiet inquiries except for our mage who specifically told her lv 2 Talismonger that she was looking for word on the street about anyone who might know about it and to keep her ears open. The others went so far as asking EVERYONE they knew about it; including several fixers. So the opposing runner team eventually heard through the grapevine. And they also heard Dante's name get dropped a few times. And through the grapevine, they also heard of who Dante hangs out with (his contacts). So when one contact ended up having a very distinctive watch sent to him by courier with a note stating "back off or he gets it. In twenty four hours we'll let him go"

So Dante goes to his decker contact who lived in an A-class neighborhood (while under surveillance, they knew where he lived but were attempting to avoid bloodshed; that's why they didn't storm his house). One of the runners follows him and says Dante's here. he ends up staying for the next twelve hours or so while the decker does some searches.
Meanwhile, the runner team hires some gangers, gives them a sub each and a ski mask, and goes to talk to Dante. Due to his amplified hearing and making an awesome perception check, I let him hear the group as they're coming up the stairs and loading magazines into the subs. They knock, whispering at the door that they're here to tell him to just chill out for the next day or so and his doctor friend will be returned unharmed (this was said by the opposing runner, or one of them anyways), and he tells his contact not to answer. He waits, and knocks back. The gangers, not being the smartest in the world, one of them looks in the peephole. Dante shoots the guy right through it. Needless to say, all hell breaks loose after that. The other gangers spray the door with subs; they don't hit a single thing except ruin the poor decker's apartment and essentially blow the door off the hinges. They're retreating by using suppressive fire, and that's when Dante states that he whips out his grenade launcher and puts a few rounds down the hallway. Everyone in the building is hitting their PANICbuttons. When Dante jumps around the corner to get a good shot off, the team leader puts a six round burst into his chest from a Supermach 100, and drops him to a serious. the other gangers get lucky with their bursts and score two or three light wounds on him. Even the decker takes a moderate wound from a stray round. Eventually, all is quiet. DocWagon arrives first as he broke his ID band (and in Neo Anarchist's guide to Real Life it states that an HTR team is sent if that happens). So they come in through the roof in an Osprey II, and the team finds him in the decker's apartment. He shows his bracelet, and verify his ID. As they're taking him along, he asks what about the decker. They state that she is not a contracted member, and they have determined her injuries to not be life-threatening. He states that he will pay for her. In a general niceness, the guy says he'll pro-rate one month's service, and he'll incur the HRT costs. he says that's fine. They also let him know that he'll need to leave the grenade lanucher "that you must have found" (added with a wink) here because they won't allow it due to it's nature. He specifically states that it's his, and he's not leaving it. The medic on the HTR says to get him on board as he's losing a lot of blood. So they get him on regardless with the decker.
I roll on a d6 to see if a DocWagon or a public hospital is closest. The result says that it's a public hospital. So they take him there with the decker, and inform the staff that he is being brought in for gunshot wounds. They strip him to begin the bullet extractions, and that's when they find the grenade launcher, and the VERY illegal ammo (two pistols filled with APDS ammo and him having no security permit). The don't know about the ammo, but they do call LoneStar about the grenade launcher. Lonestar puts two and two together and sees him on the surveillance footage as everyone in the building hit their panic buttons. And that's when I said that he'd have to make a new character.
I looked up the legality on grenade launchers, and they're classified as military weapons. I figured that the ATF (or equivalent version for the UCAS) would get involved immediately due to this. And they're also going to serve a federal search warrant on his house as well.
So what I've decided on is that they're going to take away all his toys, fine him an obscene amount of money, and any money left over is going to be spent paying a lawyer to keep him out of prison. And the lawyer is going to "let him owe a few favors to keep him out of the system entirely". And that is where we ended at three o'clock in the morning on a sunday night.

[Clyde]

For what it's worth, I think this "Dante" guy is getting off light. He used a grenade launcher in an "A" zone. Definitely a party foul. The BBB suggests that use of a military weapon carries an 8 year jail term and a 10,000 :nuyen: fine. If the cops want to let him out early, there ought to be something they get out of it. You can turn this into a story opportunity if you want - Dante gets a new and very demanding contact from the ATF or Lone Star. Someone who wants all kinds of illegal wiretapping, forced confessions, you name it. After all, who do you call when the cops blackmail you? You should probably try to get one or two good shadowruns out of him and then give him a way out for the future. That'll reinforce the lesson without totally derailing the character or the campaign.

As for the whole "never surrender" deal - that's a tougher issue. Is it a player attitude or a character attitude? If it's just Dante that thinks that way, then you're free to open fire in game should you choose. Players can be surprisingly resourceful. If it's the player who figures he should never surrender, maybe because he wants to always win, then you have worse problems. You might want to speak to him individually, preferably in a non-confrontational fashion.

Another option is to foreshadow the problem. Have a Johnson hire the runners for a job where he admits up front that maybe this one just can't be done. He won't geek them if they fail, won't even say anything bad about their rep. This is just nearly impossible and for whatever reason he has to try. This way, the player or the character can confront his issue head on and in a non-judgmental fashion. By warning the player ahead of time, they can get to a place where they can emotionally handle whatever happens. If there's a failure it's because the job was too hard, not because the player didn't "win."

[fistandantilus4....]

[hyzmarca]

[fistandantilus4....]

actually, if he's still playing 3rd edition, that's ok too, cause then his poor paper back book is gonna fall apart like mine has done (after hitting a layer with it incidentally). Now if it was 4th ed hard back......