 Another Possible Stupid Question-Sliver Gun, Or ammo possibilities for Slivergun |
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 Sep 7 2005, 07:14 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 908 Joined: 31-March 05 From: Georgia Member No.: 7,270  |
I'm at work, so my book isn't in front of me. But as I remember, the Viper Slivergun is 9S(f), 30© SA/BF and availablity between 5/6.
My question is? Can you just swap out the Flechettes for Regular Rounds (or EX-EX or APDS, etc) and have a decently concealable pistol at the appropriate damage rating but with a 30 round clip? Or, is the Sliver gun, unlike every other firearm in SR3 not receptive to different types of ammo? |
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Sep 7 2005, 07:18 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 404 Joined: 22-June 05 From: Canada eh! Member No.: 7,455 |
Sorry .... the slivergun is flechette only. it has its own ammo as well, not just any hp flechette will do.
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Sep 7 2005, 07:21 PM
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#3
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
There are several firearms that can only take its own custom rounds, including the Raecor Sting, the Viper Slivergun, and the Barret Sniper Rifle.
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Sep 8 2005, 04:43 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
Can I di-kote my Sliver gun ammo?
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Sep 8 2005, 05:27 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 404 Joined: 22-June 05 From: Canada eh! Member No.: 7,455 |
I am pretty sure that rules state you cannot dikote ammo. It would cook off. Dikoting takes a carbon plasma and covers the surface of the object. |
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Sep 8 2005, 05:32 PM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
That doesn't preclude dikoting the projectiles before putting them in the shell casing. :) |
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Sep 8 2005, 06:22 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Beat me to it. Besides, you wouldn't want to dikote the slivers when they were pressed together in a shell - they'd bond into a solid bullet. |
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Sep 8 2005, 07:46 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 404 Joined: 22-June 05 From: Canada eh! Member No.: 7,455 |
You potentially could do that. But if I was a gm I would just rule that the melting point of the bullet is too low, and it loses its shape in the oven, or that it would cost :nuyen: 1000 per bullet just to be a pain. There are much easier ways to munchkin your way around things. |
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Sep 8 2005, 07:48 PM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
LOL. As a gm, there is no way in Hell I would allow anybody to dikote the ammo for the Slivergun. I was just saying that it should be physically possible.
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Sep 8 2005, 08:09 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 150 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,660 |
Who knows if it was possible or not. It may not coat smoothly enough, thus unbalancing the projectile and making it inaccurate at best. It may not 'dry' evenly, thus warping the projectile with even worse results. Or maybe the ammo for Sliverguns is already so coated, and thus is part of the base weapon stats. I do believe however that the intent of the game is for it not to be possible. |
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Sep 8 2005, 08:36 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
OK, so can I dikote my Ally spirit, and have one of it's manifestation forms be a Slivergun? Or would it's form be a "dikoted Slivergun"?
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Sep 8 2005, 09:03 PM
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#12
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Only if you have sex with it. |
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Sep 8 2005, 09:07 PM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
Sex with a dikoted Slivergun :eek: |
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Sep 8 2005, 09:47 PM
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#14
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
No, no, no. You bind a Free Spirit into a Slivergun (Dikoted™, of course) and use it's Wealth Power to create Dikoted™ rounds. |
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Sep 8 2005, 10:38 PM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Stop acting like it made sense in the first place! |
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Sep 9 2005, 12:28 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025 |
This thread, and the other one floating around, both bring up different visions of what 'slivergun' means in visual terms.
I've rolled this around in my own head a couple of times. Often I've imagined that 'sliver' was an exaggerated description of a particularily light, slim bullet, looking like a teeny rifle bullet, which would account for the high ammo capacity. Other visuals I've heard include a shotgun type of round that uses needles instead of pellets, (now how would that be silenced?) and a "salt shaker" looking muzzle with internal workings like a teensy rotary barrel gattling gun contraption, but somehow powered off a compressed gas mechanism (weird indeed). Who's seen "bird shot?" We used to load them in .22's when I was a kid. Just like a miniature shotgun shell. Not exactly 9S devastating, though... unless you were a sparrow. Anybody else got a visual on this? Can anyone refer us to a picture or more specific description of the mechanism that's published or posted? |
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Sep 9 2005, 12:34 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 908 Joined: 31-March 05 From: Georgia Member No.: 7,270 |
http://www.antipersonnel.net/sdllc/images/S014.jpg
That's my understanding, that a Flechette is actually a tiny sabot round. It does not make sense with the rules relating rounds to armor. According to a program I watched on TV, the round is SUPPOSED to penetrate armor, not as described. But there are plenty of Gun nuts incarnate on the site, who can explain it fully I'm sure. <casts Summon Gun Bunny> <rolls for resisting drain> |
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Sep 9 2005, 01:00 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025 |
Make fun of the gun bunnies and it's not drain you gotta worry about... (ducking!)
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Sep 9 2005, 01:35 AM
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#19
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
You coulden't dikote a bullet. It's the same reason bullets aren't made out of steel.
In the barrel, the bullet has to deform very slightly, to dig into the rifling, which lets it spin. Any material harder than lead, such as, ooooh, let's say steel, or titanium, or a diamond coated whatever, would be too hard, not dig in, and would fuck your barrel up, to boot. So, if someone insists on having Dikoted bullets, probably a collector's item or something, and insists on adding powder charge and primer and firing it, well.... Not only is the bullet going to be a haaaair too big... Call it, say, roll 2d6; below 4 = misfire. I doubt it would result in Carnage, oweing to the modern design of firearms in the 2060s, which probably have some sort of If pressure > X, where X is some number consistant with a misfire, then some sort of emergency valve facing forward on the gun pops, and you get a mother of a kick, but your gun basically survives. And requires a firearms BR test of 2 and about a miunte to fix. However, none of this precludes dikoted flechette rounds. I woulden't let it do very MUCH more, but if you're willing to go to the extra cost, I'd maybe let it use it's full rating against armor. |
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Sep 9 2005, 01:49 AM
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#20
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
my take on the fletchette ammo for most handguns in SR sounds like a kind of shotgun light. most likely a series for small metal slivers that forms the shape of a "standard" bullet when loaded into the gun. but when fired the slivers break away and make for many small wounds. but if grouped just right on a unarmored target they should do more tissue damage then a normal bullet.
ie, its an extreme kind of hollow point, but with worse penetration :P but then im no firearms hobbyist (or gun nut as i think its more normaly called ;) ). hmm, that reminded me about some guy talking about the m-16 on a discovery channel program. the way he talked and held that gun made me wonder if he wanted to have sex with it... |
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Sep 9 2005, 01:53 AM
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#21
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
WTF? FMJ are steel over lead, even hollow points are steel over lead. Present day bullets are already made of steel, what the hell are you talking about? I'd wait for the resident gun gurus to ream you a new asshole. |
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Sep 9 2005, 02:39 AM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Toturi is correct. Full metal jacketed ammunition (and most everything else) is jacketed in either copper and zinc or copper coated steel. The jacket prevents barrel wear and damage to the weapon; it doesn't cause it. There are even steel cored and steel/tungsten bullets (like the 5.7x28mm SS109), and the P90 and Five-seveN may suck, but they shoot fine. I'm afraid you are completely incorrect.
To perhaps oversimplify, you are more or less correct, and Shadowrun is dependably more or less wrong. Flechettes, in real life, are small metal slivers with excellent aerodynamic characteristics and equally excellent penetration. They don't do very much damage because, as the root of their name suggests, they are small arrows. A flechette shotgun shell, in real life, is basically a shot shell filled with a bunch of large needles. In Shadowrun, flechettes made/make no fucking sense in SR3, as they are the exact opposite of what they are in real life, and function more like Unreal Tournament's flak cannon than anything else. I don't know if this is the case in SR4, but it probably is. |
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Sep 9 2005, 02:45 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 150 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,660 |
FMJ are typically a copper jacket over lead as are hollow points. Copper has a nice low friction value against steel which makes it the metal of choice. There were some experiments with Teflon, but I believe that line of development ended due to insignificant gain. Common AP rounds have steel cores covered in copper although it varies depending upon the exact design. The .223 round for the M-16 series for example has a steel insert in lead both covered with a copper jacket and is perhaps best thought of as a fragmenting semi-ap round under ideal conditions... Lead by the way is being replaced by new composite materials in the US military due to enviromental concerns. |
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Sep 9 2005, 02:58 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 150 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,660 |
Basically correct. The penetration ability however is somewhat overstated. They are not an AP round as such but are better than larger diameter but equal weight round shot. Their main advantage over round shot is that their more aerodynamic shape results in less energy loss as the round travels, this resulting in more remaining energy upon impact on the target. Thus their use in shotgun like heavy weapons such as beehive rounds where they are exploded outward in huge numbers. They've never successfully been field in small arms that I'm aware of. The US did produce a prototype rifle back in the 70s I think it was, but production of flechette was too expensive given the greater need for fine tolerance control. They also tend to individually lack stopping power due to a very small diameter. This weapon used a sabot like round in order to launch the flechette. The 'brick ammo' idea is pure sci-fi and would require not only a brick that could produce exactly uniform flechettes- it would likely have to use a gauss like action as it would be missing the sabot. The lack of fins would be a major problem and I'm not sure how the projectile would be stabilized in flight... |
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Sep 9 2005, 03:04 AM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
I don't remember where I read it or how reliable the source was, but I do recall reading about 12ga flechette shells being used to clear trees of snipers in Vietnam.
Flechettes were also pitched to the US military in the form of Steyr's ill conceived and equally fated ACR. And, yeah, brick ammo is just utterly silly rubbish. |
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