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> Who do you geek second?, When the mage is dead
Sicarius
post Sep 8 2005, 10:42 AM
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If its a uniformed group, I'd say take out command and control. Target their Police Commander, or the Security Shift Leader or what have you. If they are 'runners or gangers or otherwise from street level, that might more difficult to determine. If you've got a reasonable gm, that should effect their response considerably.
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Conskill
post Sep 8 2005, 10:46 AM
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My favorite decker PC approached running with the philosophy that if you look geeky and frail enough, the enemy will shoot at you last and be more inclined to let you surrender first.

Oddly enough, it worked.

So I say attack the biggest, nastiest, most heavily armored cyber-troll freak in the group. Spare the geeks.
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Snow_Fox
post Sep 8 2005, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Sep 7 2005, 09:39 PM)
Do they leave the wounded to fend for themselves?

That is exactly what they do, yes.

Next!

~J

Then fall, back, let them go past you, then double back and take out the wounded. Then put out word that "X" left his team mates to die...caused all their deaths...didn't get his team out....etc the damage to his rep will be as fatal as APDS through the heart.
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Siege
post Sep 8 2005, 12:24 PM
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They're NPCs - they can always find someone crazy, desperate or psychotic enough to work for them. :grinbig:

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toturi
post Sep 8 2005, 01:05 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Sep 8 2005, 07:27 PM)
Then fall, back, let them go past you, then double back and take out the  wounded. Then put out word that "X" left his team mates to die...caused all their deaths...didn't get his team out....etc the damage to his rep will be as fatal as APDS through the heart.

Not if you smear the fallen team members first or the other guys first. Put out word the "Y" and "Z" couldn't pull their weight and nearly got the rest of you geeked. Or that the opposition were cold blooded slitches with whom you are going to swear blood feud... use them as matyrs to damage the oppositions rep and the drekheads have the gall to boast about it! The damage to their rep instead will be as fatal as APDS through the heart.
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Foreigner
post Sep 8 2005, 04:18 PM
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I pretty much agree with Sicarius.

The standard targets for snipers throughout history have been, in descending order:

(1) Officers;

(2) Non-commissioned officers (usually anyone between Sergeant and Lieutenant Second Class, although Lance Corporals (Marine Corps) Corporals, and Warrant Officers, or their naval equivalents, might also be counted);

(3) Communications officers (the guy with the field radio on his back); and

(4) Heavy-weapons people--i.e, anyone carrying a squad automatic weapon, light, medium, or heavy machine gun (or their components, such as the tripod), bazooka, mortar (or components), or ammunition for the aforementioned weapons.

Example: During World War II, the favorite target of enemy snipers--after officers, NCOs, and communications personnel--was the man with the Browning Automatic Rifle ("BAR"), because the enemy had learned, from experience, that the BAR man was individually the most dangerous man in the squad, because his weapon was more portable than, but had about the same firepower as, a light or medium machine gun. Its main flaw was a low ammunition capacity--it had a maximum cyclic rate of 600 rounds per minute (10 shots per second in SR parlance)--but only a 20-round magazine.

(Emphasis mine.)

A story was once related to me of a BAR man whose entire unit (a squad or two, I think, that is, ten or fifteen men--something smaller than a platoon, at any rate)--except for him, that is--was wiped out by an enemy attack. He had survived by scrounging supplies (food and water) and ammunition from his dead comrades during lulls in the fighting. When another patrol found him later, he was alive and pretty much unhurt, but had been driven to the brink of insanity by rage, grief, fear, and exhaustion.

His BAR was useless; the barrel had been "washed out"--that is, the rifling had been destroyed, and the barrel itself warped from excessive heat, from the almost-constant firing.

His foxhole was surrounded by the corpses of between eighty and one hundred enemy soldiers. I say "enemy soldiers" because I am not certain whether the incident took place in the European Theater of Operations (ETO) or in the Pacific Theater--or, for that matter, whether the fellow in question was a soldier (U.S. Army, that is), or a U.S. Marine.

--Foreigner

This post has been edited by Foreigner: Sep 18 2005, 04:30 PM
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Shadow
post Sep 8 2005, 06:46 PM
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Who, reminds me of the stories about the Browning .30 cal water cooled LMG and the South Pacific theater. I forget which island but two guys and the Browning held off thousands of Japanese troops.
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mmu1
post Sep 8 2005, 06:55 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 8 2005, 03:02 AM)
Someone has clearly not read the Great Dragon ATGM entry recently.

~J

You're just ill-tempered because finally, through a freak series of occurences, my street sam is beating your rigger at "who's the better killer" by at least 2 to 1. :P
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mmu1
post Sep 8 2005, 06:57 PM
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Oh, and it's my dwarven sam's policy to (after taking out the most obvious threats) shoot the tallest guy first. :)
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Paul
post Sep 8 2005, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (Oracle)
QUOTE (Paul @ Sep 8 2005, 09:28 AM)
A mage is limited by drain[...]


Most mages in my groups rarely suffer from drain.

Really?

Now is that because of their skilled players, and lucky die rolls or because of different reasons? I mean the way you say that is pretty open to all sorts of interpretations. It could range from they're not challenged enough to the players are smart enough to avoid it.
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Mugzug
post Sep 8 2005, 07:02 PM
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Sniper targets in history may have been that way, but in modern times through a grunt's view (mine) this is the target order.

#1: Officer or whoever seems to be in charge (if on the battlefield, and clearly giving orders. They will not display rank, so figuring out who an officer is will be difficult.

#2: The guy with the heavy weaponry (machine guns, MK12's, etc). That is why all grunts are cross-trained with the heavy weaponry guy so they can jump on it when he dies. Heavy weapon is suppression and when it goes down, our people die.

#3: Comm guy. The dude has a HUGE antenna (the good ones do) and a sniper will see that. They stick out like a sore thumb, because they will have a big pack displaying their com gear.


Some terrorists might actually wound medics first, but that is a whole other story.
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Shadow
post Sep 8 2005, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (mmu1)
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 8 2005, 03:02 AM)
Someone has clearly not read the Great Dragon ATGM entry recently.

~J

You're just ill-tempered because finally, through a freak series of occurences, my street sam is beating your rigger at "who's the better killer" by at least 2 to 1. :P

I've got a knife sammy that might be in contention for that. After all, its his favorite game.

[ Spoiler ]
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mmu1
post Sep 9 2005, 04:44 AM
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QUOTE (Shadow)
I've got a knife sammy that might be in contention for that. After all, its his favorite game.

[ Spoiler ]

[ Spoiler ]
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hahnsoo
post Sep 9 2005, 04:55 AM
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QUOTE (mmu1)
Oh, and it's my dwarven sam's policy to (after taking out the most obvious threats) shoot the tallest guy first. :)

HAH! I laughed outloud when I read that. I'm currently playing a Dwarf gunslinger, and I think I'm going to have to borrow that (with the appropriate licensing fees, of course). :)
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Mortax
post Sep 9 2005, 05:06 AM
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QUOTE (mmu1)
Oh, and it's my dwarven sam's policy to (after taking out the most obvious threats) shoot the tallest guy first. :)

:rotfl: Wow. I like that.

In all honesty, we don't always geek the mage first. My first shot is at whoever I think the tactician is. After that, the mage and the speed demon are next.

Picking out the tactition is hard, but usually he is the rigger or the guy with the long gun.
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The Grifter
post Sep 9 2005, 01:19 PM
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I say waste the damn radio guy first. What's more dangerous? A machinegun, or a multiple Snake and Nape run on your position? Not to mention loss of command and control.
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mmu1
post Sep 9 2005, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (mmu1 @ Sep 8 2005, 01:57 PM)
Oh, and it's my dwarven sam's policy to (after taking out the most obvious threats) shoot the tallest guy first. :)

HAH! I laughed outloud when I read that. I'm currently playing a Dwarf gunslinger, and I think I'm going to have to borrow that (with the appropriate licensing fees, of course). :)

I'll waive the fees. This time... Let the stories of Blake's exploits spread far and wide! 8)
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nezumi
post Sep 9 2005, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (The Grifter)
I say waste the damn radio guy first. What's more dangerous? A machinegun, or a multiple Snake and Nape run on your position? Not to mention loss of command and control.

I've never seen a shadowrun group with either a radio they're carting around that's big enough to spot, or an air strike waiting for a call.
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Siege
post Sep 9 2005, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Sep 9 2005, 01:43 PM)
QUOTE (The Grifter @ Sep 9 2005, 08:19 AM)
I say waste the damn radio guy first.  What's more dangerous?  A machinegun, or a multiple Snake and Nape run on your position?  Not to mention loss of command and control.

I've never seen a shadowrun group with either a radio they're carting around that's big enough to spot, or an air strike waiting for a call.


S'why we have drone riggers. :grinbig:

Edit: Well, that and choppers.

-Siege
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Dog
post Sep 9 2005, 06:04 PM
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I suppose I've been tempted to aim my second shot at the teammate who fumbled his stealth roll, but since that's been me just as often as anyone else...
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Grinder
post Sep 9 2005, 07:06 PM
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:grinbig:
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Mortax
post Sep 10 2005, 11:20 PM
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:rotfl: nice.
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Lucifer
post Sep 11 2005, 12:42 AM
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I like coordination with my teammates. This sometimes takes the form of focus fire, but more often means prioritizing targets based on who is best equipped for the situation. As you can imagine, it varies greatly depending on fields of fire and the condition the team is in (for example, the mage isn't much use if he's already fighting off +5 combined damage modifiers), but generally it breaks down like this:

The mage Manabolt or Stunbolts the biggest, most cybered target; a troll, a gilette, the guy in Heavy Combat Armor with a gyro-mounted weapon. They usually aren't hard to find since they're either huge, don't bother with cover, or go way before the mage in the initiative order.

The sniper pops the mage. A good sniper (usually an Adept with Improved Skill: Rifles or a cyber/bio combo with Reflex Recorders and the like) with APDS/AV ammo (more affordable than you'd think since he needs so little) has surprisingly little trouble with mages... or much of anything else, for that matter.

The assault rifle users focus on whichever targets seem like they'll be the toughest to hit or damage; a nice 6+ Full-Auto attack really tears through armor and makes dodging extremely difficult.

The pistol/SMG users (usually deckers, riggers outside of vehicles, and other semi-liabilities) play clean-up since they're usually far enough down the initiative order that everything important is dead.

In the case of an entrenched battle (allies and enemies both behind cover, long ranges with poor visibility or other fights likely to last multiple rounds) we usually try to assign someone to dishing out grenades either by hand or from a launcher - both the frag kind and smokescreens for movement - and either have the rigger drop heavy and possibly indirect fire from drones, have the mage whistle up some spirits/elementals for support, or just let him go crazy with -ball spells.

You'll notice we don't many allowances for melee fighters; that's not an oversight. The general policy I take on them is thus: "If you want to get your ass shot off trying to run over there, be my guest. I'll be behind cover. Mind the grenades, we won't be holding back on your account."

We usually play fairly 'professional' level runners, though. I'm not sure how I'd handle a street level campaign. I guess for one thing melee (probably via a troll adept or similar) would become a lot more important.
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Sabosect
post Sep 11 2005, 12:56 AM
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I geek the other magically-active character.

IME, every group has at least two.
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The Grifter
post Sep 11 2005, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE
I've never seen a shadowrun group with either a radio they're carting around that's big enough to spot, or an air strike waiting for a call


Well, I was speaking of the opposition.
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