 House Rules de Santa Cruz, Mostly as regards BPs and Karma |
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 Sep 22 2006, 03:46 AM
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#26
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Prime Runner  Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665  |
About 8 hours a week for the last 54 weeks. And lately it's been up an additional 4 hours every other week. So about 450 hours of playing time.
Yeah. The expanded contacts rules were new. Also I have a couple of house rules as regards specific pieces of equipment: Wired Reflexes: These are pretty lame as written. Wired 3, for example, should not even exist. I charge people 11k and 1 Essence point per rating for "modern wired reflexes". Maglock Passkeys: And similar automatic devices are considered to have anattribute and skill equal to their rating. So a Maglock Passkey rolls double its rating instead of its rating. Same for Retinal Duplicators and such. Healing Times: The healing tiomes in the BBB are crazy short. For Long Term Healing, I make the threshold to heal 1 box the number of boxes you have rather than 1. This bumps the healing time for major injuries to weeks rather than hours. Programs When hacking, your Dice Pool is Logic + Hacking (or whatever). Your hits are capped at 1 + Program Rating. But those aren't directly related to my BP rules, I just think it's a better way of handling those things. I'd sit down and really rework Technomancy costs and effects, but noone really seems to want to play one in any of my games, and I'm not part of the Unwired team, so I don't have any pressing reason to work on it. -Frank |
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Sep 22 2006, 05:14 AM
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#27
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Jacked In, Up & Out Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 232 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 95 |
Frank
Thanks for the explanation. Dave |
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Sep 22 2006, 07:07 AM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
lol I didn't even realize this was such an old thread when I first replied.
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Oct 13 2006, 12:53 AM
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#29
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
So, how many other people have tried this rules varient?
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Oct 19 2006, 07:40 AM
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#30
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Frank: In your chargen system, are Knowledge Skills still available free (as per Logic/Intuition) at chargen, or do they have to be purchased with some of the initial 400 BP?
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Oct 19 2006, 08:22 AM
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#31
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
The Knowledge Skills are available free as normal (Logic x3 + Intuition x3) and can be purchased at the rate of 1 BP per point of Knowledge skill (keeping with the skills at half-cost model). 3 different gaming groups, no complaints so far. -Frank |
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Oct 19 2006, 08:57 AM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Well let's put it this way, I've been in since day one, never missed a session (as far as I know) and I have 111 BP. We almost always get 2 to 3 build points. I joke that when we get into combat we get 3 points for the session. I actually think we get about a point less than we should but that's probably just my perception as I never have enough to go around. I must say things seem to work great. I've noticed the Sams seem to always sink their BPs into attributes while I haven't raised any (besides magic) ever. We've all bought new skills and raised prevous ones. Finance 6, woohoo. Oh and technomancers just blow. |
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Oct 19 2006, 09:34 AM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 870 Joined: 2-October 06 From: Athens Ga Member No.: 9,517 |
I separated Karma off from XP and gave them both. XP works like the BP for the most part. Karma only effects use of edge (you spend karma to use your edge dice) and you buy edge with karma. You also spend karma on bonding for magic. Otherwise you use the XP. I give them a few points of XP at the end of the session and I give Karma during the session and after for good roleplay, funny actions, maxing dice pools, etc.
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Oct 19 2006, 02:43 PM
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#34
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Cool, thanks.
I wouldn't be complaining as a player either! As a GM, I love well-rounded characters, and this certainly allows starting PCs to fill in some usually sorely overlooked spots. It als allows for the creation of (semi) realistic ex-military or spec-ops characters. I love what this chargen system has done for my brand spanking new ex-ganger, Flintlock. :D |
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Oct 20 2006, 04:24 AM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Ah another satisfied customer Frank. :) Btw pizza's on me tommorow. |
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Oct 20 2006, 06:31 AM
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#36
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 27-February 03 Member No.: 4,171 |
I like seeing characters with more skills. A few clarifications if you please, sir. -----
Do you allow or have you allowed beginning characters to apply Specializations to skills within skill groups? If yes, have you noted any difficulties?
Do you keep the cap at 50 BP a.k.a. 350,000 ¥? Ever have a character go full bore in an impressive augmentation display? Any issues arise?
What does this mean? I'm not familiar with the concept. ----- What sorts of characters (sams, adepts, faces, hackers, full mages, etc.) have seen long-term play? Could you poke your players to post the original 400 BP versions of their characters? Thanks! |
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Oct 20 2006, 07:15 AM
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#37
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Absolutely. The Ork Gunslinger Adept sample character has improved ability on a grouped skill and that power has the same terminology as the restriction on specializations. As per the RAW, you can take a Specializatin on a skill that happens to be in a skill group, but you can't take a specialization on the entire skill group.
No more than normal with specializations. You can't specialize any skill in "badassery" and get the +2 bonus any time you are "being a badass". Once that has been settled, specializations work out very nicely whether people are using them on grouped skills or stand alone skills.
Yes.
Several.
Characters in this model can legitimately set themselves up with an Essence that is less than or equal to 1 without doing stupid crap to themselves. This isn't normally a huge game balance issue, but it does mean that the cyberware upgrading rules (that aren't in the basic book!) are fairly needed by those characters. That atually isn't a problem for me, for reasons that I am contractually obligated not to talk about. But waiting until January/Febuary of next year to get cybersurgery rules can really put out a character who went for a diverse asortment of internal metal. The other thing I've seen happen is for characters to go full stealth mode instead. On 350,000 :nuyen:, the lifestyles of the Synaptic Booster start getting pretty attractive for starting characters. I've seen a character who fought with a monofilament whip on an autospool out of a ring and a hold-out pistol who was extremely inconspicuous. Not game breaking in the way people normally expect ("I ROLL MORE DICE NOWZ!") but the ability to pull off normal street sam maneuvers without showing up as anything but a civillian on most technological or magical scans causes the game to be different. I rather like the way that's turned out, by the way. But it's certainly something to think about.
An unfunded mandate is a legal term which is when a piece of legislation requires an entity to perform an action but does not set aside funds to perform this action. The classic example is when the Federal government makes requirements of education or law enforcement programs of states and does not write them a check while doing so. In 4th edition, there are several things that you must buy that used to be optional. The most obvious, of course, is the Comlink. But the base contracts apply here as well.
El Mechador: Elven Street Sam focused on low-tech solutions to problems. Uses "unhackable" equipment whenever possible. Has an AK with a laser sight and a sword even though he also has a smart link. Fights cars in arenas and maintains a wide web of international mercenary contacts based out of Lybia. Mocha Latte: Dwarf Rigger/Hacker/ Drug Dealer. She invested heavily into chemical sciences and operates out of an ice cream truck. Her military output varies tremendously based on her currently available drones, which range from little crawly things to man-sized vehicles with machinegun mounts. Scratch: Mystic Adept with an incredibly convoluted story and a focus in melee combat. He now owns a Latvian slave girl who is possessed with a Norwegian bear spirit. He is an "Ork" from a game mechanical perspective (actually he's a magical creature, I said "If you can buy all the powers as Mystic Adept Abilities, go for it") Ghost: Hacker Street Samurai who lives her life in Worlds of Starcraft, a Miracle Shooter like game that is big in Korea. Carries armor piercing weaponry and has been amazingly effective at killing spirits with it. Urza: Dwarf magician who suffers from She Hulk delusions. Spends a considerable amount of time researching corrupted magic and collecting evil artifacts in his apartment. Also spends his time performing weapons research for Aztlan and real estate speculation. Ophelia: Street Samurai "average consumer". Uses legal and unassuming gear to blend into society and assassinate people. Brainiac: Hacker/Rigger who suffers from Scully Syndrome. Refuses to admit that magic is real and specializes in remote observation equipment. Dr. Wang: hand-to-hand adept who also practices medicine and dabbles in hacking when he isn't flipping out and ninja kicking people in the head. Marionette: Serbian Illusionist magician. Has a portable machine gun which she calls "plan B" and the illusion magics to take it into facilities without astral overwatch. Jimmy: Confederate adept who specializes in throwing things. And blowing things up. And skinning things. Michael: Troll magician face/pyromancer. He is a Fomorian subtype, so the face aspect isn't as crazy as you'd think. He's a follower of the paths of the wheel. Boris: Dwarf Anarchist Rigger from Russia. Based somewhat on Mark Pauline. Makes destructive stuff and then destroys it. Lives the Beyond Thunderdome lifestyle. --- A notable lack of Technomancers. Sometimes people investigate it for a while, but the rules just aren't there to do what people want to do with them. I've discussed it with the people writing Unwired, and I think that ultimately the rules aren't going to be where I'd like to see them. I think I'll just write my own.
I can try. Also, I can just poke them, that's awesome. -Frank |
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Oct 20 2006, 07:59 AM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Aww now i'm blushing. :P I'm surprised you didn't say which creature. What would you like? Just base stats and skills or the full monty with background? Also current character? Ya I'm an attention whore. |
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Oct 20 2006, 08:06 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 870 Joined: 2-October 06 From: Athens Ga Member No.: 9,517 |
How about you set up a web site and post them there. Then you can post the web address here.
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Oct 20 2006, 08:22 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Never done a web site. I may be an attention whore but I deplore shameless self promotion. Ergo no my space, blogs, web pages or whatnot. Hmmm how about Live Journal? I'm open to suggestions though as I find myself writing more and more shadowrun related stuff I could put up. EDIT: I'm going to give Live Journal a shot and see how it turns out. I'm working on it now. Good thing i'm nocturnal, I should have this up in 3 hours hmm maybe 4, i'm making cookies, the eating kind not the electronic sort. :) |
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Oct 20 2006, 12:10 PM
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#41
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yeah yeah! I still have to find a GM that would let me use him as a starting character, even if the game used normal Karma progression from there. :D Of course, it would be kinda nice to find a GM at all. :( |
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Oct 20 2006, 12:49 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Hmm where are you? The moon? Heh, kidding. Odd that package was supposed to make 3 dozen cookies and I got 12. Anyone want a cookie the size of a frisbee? Hmmm well I cranked some stuff out but I've only just started the background. It was a pain in the hoop to backtrack and do all the math to confirm I had everything correctly as original. Haven't gotten to personality, likes, dislikes, flaws, etc. I don't want to post incomplete stuff so it'll have to wait a few hours. To be honest I only had a vague idea of Scratch's distant past and actually putting it in words is proving interesting. I know even Frank didn't know all this and he runs the game. |
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Oct 28 2006, 05:22 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Well damn here I am a week later. I had stuff to do. Regardless here's what you asked for, scroll down to get to the original character. I'll put up Mocha Latte if I can get her later.
I can hear the groans already but screw it, Scratch is turning out to be one of my favorite characters to play in 16 RL years. :P Draconis' Shadowrun page |
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Oct 28 2006, 06:02 PM
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#44
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Not sold on many of the tweaks, personally, but I have to say that I'm in love with the Hacking bits. Hacking + Program goes against the rules norm of Stat + Skill, but keeping teh programs around as Hit Limits? Simple, yet perfect.
I'll have to sit down and have a chat with you about skill point costs sometime, however. I think your prices are too low. Mind, I've *far* less playtesting time, so, it'll be a tricky talk and I'll likely not convnice you, but, I'm game to try. :) |
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Oct 28 2006, 06:12 PM
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#45
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Go for it. I'll start: Consider combat skills. We have someone who wants to fight in melee and at range. What should they do? Well, Agility costs 10 points per die. How much should a die of Firearms group cost? How much should a die of Close Combat group cost? Once you've answered that question, how much should a die of Throwing or Exotic Melee Wapon cost? Assuming for the moment that you wan people purchasing "professional ratings" of skills as starting characters (a contentious claim, I know), how much should you charge relative to the price of an attribute? I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but I've done a fair amount of math and playtesting on this issue, it would take quite a revelation to change my mind now. ;) -Frank |
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Oct 29 2006, 10:03 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 23-August 05 Member No.: 7,590 |
Great system, Frank! Sadly, I don't play SR very often anymore - it's tough to get everyone together and I am pretty much at the other end of the world at the moment -, but I was looking for an easy way to re-create non-starting characters that would not involve two different systems with different relative costs for everything. I looked into making a purely karma-based chargen, but with skill groups more expensive than attributes, the relative costs just didn't feel right. Sure, you can limit hits to (skill)x2 to make skills more valuable, but it doesn't always make an awful lot of sense. Or I could adjust the relative Karma costs of attributes and skills, but then, there's the problem that raising a troll's strength from 8 to 9 costs way more than raising a human's strength from 4 to 5 even though they are the same thing relative to their metatype's average. The system can be modified to correct this, of course, but then the maths and record-keeping becomes quite involved. Overall, I thought that a two-step linear system was "good enough" and that your adjustments to the relative costs were pretty good. I'll use your system to convert my team's characters: first, create a starting character using the normal caps and BP; then, improve your character with a number of BP equal to (Karma/2). And I can always adjust the Karma transfers if the numbers don't feel right, but I think it will work well. A few quick question though... 1-) Do you mean that you've gotten rid of Wired Reflexes 3 (and capped "modern wired refelexes" at 2)? Or do you mean that Wired 3 was way too expensive in terms of Essence (and nuyen) for what it did? 2-) Also, did you change the corresponding adept power to reflect this lower cost? 3-) Concerning specializations, I am really not clear as to whether or not they count toward the skill cap. If skills are capped at 9, can you get Pistols 9 (Spec. Ares Predator 11) or are you limited to Pistols 7 (Spec. Ares Predator 9)? (In other words, in the second case, you could improve your Pistols skill, but your specialization would still stay at 9.) |
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Oct 29 2006, 10:20 AM
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#47
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Keep in mind that it is not "Pistols 4 (Predator 6)", but "Pistols 4 (Predator +2)". Specialization adds to the Dice Pool, not to the Skill itself. Therefore it is in no way limited by Skill caps, so if Skills were capped at 9, a character could have Pistols 9 (Predator +2).
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Oct 29 2006, 11:15 AM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 23-August 05 Member No.: 7,590 |
Ok, I wasn't entirely sure (which is why I asked).
So... Is anything other than Reflex Recorders and Improved Abilities included in the skill cap? It seems to me that the skill cap isn't all that binding since pretty much everything gives bonus dice to the pool instead of increasing the skill (or the attribute). |
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Oct 29 2006, 12:05 PM
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#49
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's about it. Although there may be some things in future books that apply. Pretty much anything affecting an actual Attribute comes under the cap however. |
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Oct 29 2006, 01:18 PM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 23-August 05 Member No.: 7,590 |
How do you handle all the magic stuff based on Karma? From the quote, I'd guess you just say that 1 BP = 1 Karma point even though players acquire BP more slowly than karma. Am I right? The Magic increase in your example costs 13 BP for the initiation and 10 BP for the Magic point? And the cost of the Magic increase is always 10 - even beyond 6 - unless you max out your Magic, i.e. 6 + Grade, right? At first, I thought that it would penalize magicians since characters accumulate BP more slowly than Karma, but the flat cost of the Magic increase compensates adequately, I think, i.e. even though you'll pay more for the initiation, your Magic point will always be 10 BP instead of, for example, 18, 21, 24, 27, and 30 Karma points. |
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