 Arrrggg, Technomancers |
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 Sep 17 2005, 06:00 PM
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#126
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Immoral Elf  Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486  |
Nosferatu can give others back their Essence?
That is my biggest problem with booklord's theory. |
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Sep 17 2005, 06:12 PM
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#127
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
no. the book, Nosferatu. it had a high-force spirit purge a shaman of cyberware. sometimes, i cry at night when i remember that book.
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Sep 17 2005, 06:18 PM
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#128
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Ah yes. I had successfully blocked that from my memory until you brought it up. Thanks! :P
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Sep 17 2005, 06:25 PM
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#129
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
no one escapes the pain, if i can't.
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Sep 17 2005, 06:36 PM
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#130
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
QUOTE:FORTUNE
Never said it was a perfect theory. But all Otaku in SR3 had a minimal cyberware investment at least. Since a lot of these Technomancers are former Otaku something needs to explain how they magically regained their essense. Or you can simply fanwank that a lot of technomancers have 5.0 - 5.9 essense based on their pre-technomancer lives. The thing is that technomancers simply shouldn't exist. They don't make sense. They're here because the writers thought they were cool. Well, arguably the only reason that Otaku existed were because great resonance (which may or may not be considered an AI) or AIs rewired their brains. Sentient beings did not evolve the otaku abilities on their own. It makes sense that Technomancers exist for a similar reason. Something went and altered them. This is obviously beyond the scope of an AI's power so we're into magic. Hunting down and altering thousands of Otaku is beyond the scope of a being tied to the physical plane so my bet would be the single-minded dedication of a spirit. ( The ability to go nearly anywhere and be able to manifest physically would be valuable tools for such an endeavor ) Whether the spirit is doing this on its own accord or is the tool of a powerful magical creature ( like Hetsaby ) that has a strong interest and/or investment in the Otaku is anybody's guess. |
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Sep 17 2005, 06:46 PM
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#131
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
I asked this when SL James brought it up and I'll aska again. Where the hell are you reading that Otaku who survived the Crash and evolved into Technomancers regained Essence? Or for that matter that anyone who was online with a datajack and became a technomancer following the Boston Singularity regained Essence? If you had an Otaku in SR3 with a datajack (or other implanted character), then he should have the jack in SR4 (and the hit to Resonance). The SR4 book says nothing about anyone regaining Essence. Don't want to take the hit, make a post-Crash Technomancer who woke into his abilities, but if you're playing a converted character he should remain consistent. |
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Sep 17 2005, 06:56 PM
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#132
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
I seem to recall in another thread that a decker still needed a datajack if he were to go to a VR node. Is this true of technomancers as well? If so I'd bet that a large percent of technomancers would fall in the 5.0 - 5.9 essense category and the hit to resonance.
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Sep 17 2005, 07:50 PM
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#133
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Not a slam, mate. Your theory is as good as anyone else's to date. :) I just find the whole idea behind (non-magical) Technomancers to be somewhat ridiculous. I didn't much like Otaku in the first place, but Technomancers are far worse. In my opinion, they are the worst thing about SR4. |
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Sep 17 2005, 08:14 PM
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#134
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Technomancers "tap" into wireless networks without requiring a datajack. In this respect they differ from their Otaku predecessors. How they do this is still unknown, but as far as anyone knows implants seem to disrupt their Resonance ability. In fact, implanting cyber/bioware of any kind limits their Resonance in a similar way that cyber/bioware impacts Magic. Resonance does not start at 6 and is an Attribute which can be bought up like any other after you purchase the Technomancer Quality at chargen. If you are converting a pre-Crash2.0 Otaku or if your backstory calls for acybered character which discovered his technomancer abilities after the Crash2.0, then there is no reason this shouldn't be reflected in his Essence and Resonance (ie. an SR3 Otaku conversion should take a hit to Resonance). Don't like the idea? Okay, build a technomancer who experienced his Deep Resonance (or whatever) while jacked in using a trode mesh, or expressed his potential intuitively became aware of wireless flow around him. |
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Sep 17 2005, 08:33 PM
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#135
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
I never had a player take an Otaku character so I didn't really have to deal with them much. As for technomancers I agree. There really isn't a good explanantion of why they exist or how they work that doesn't involve magic. I couldn't even think of a good explanation using magic without involving the active participation of a powerful magical individual, creature or entity.
And my theory suffers a major bump when it comes to new technomancers. Otaku had their brains reconfigured by the great resonance or AIs. But new technomancers have no cyberware period. How they could they get their brains reconfigured so they could interact with the matrix? A powerful spirit could perhaps grant mundanes adept abilities to broadcast a signal from their bodies like a commlink. But that ability wouldn't mean anything until their brains were reconfigured to interact directly with the matrix. Which couldn't happen unless they connected to the matrix first. Which they couldn't do without cyberware because even if they had the commlink broadcast ability they couldn't connect to the matrix because their brains weren't configured for it...... I need to sit down now.... my head hurts..... :spin: |
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Sep 17 2005, 09:00 PM
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#136
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
The Great Technomancer Conspiracy
Booklord's revised theory With Crash 2.0, the new wireless rush, and fading a surviving AI ( lets say Mirage, but any could do save perhaps Deus ) wanted to save the otaku from extinction and the history books. The AI learned that some Otaku had gained the capability to transmit commlink signals from their bodies without the use of cyberware. These were the technoshamans that lived on Mount Shasta under the employ of the great dragon Hetsaby. The AI contacted the great dragon and learned the dragon had created a spirit with the ability to give adept like abilities to mundane beings to emit commlink signals from their own bodies. It proposed an idea. The dragon's spirit and the AI would work together to turn give these abilities to all the surviving Otaku in the world. The AI would locate them and then transmit the location to the dragon's technomancers who in turn would have the dragon's shamans direct the spirit to the location of the otaku so they could be enhanced. It took some time but eventually all Otaku were turned into technomancers. At this point the AI turned to turning more and more people into technomancers. Even those who were only connected to the matrix via a trode mesh could be contacted by the AI and have their brains reconfigured so they could interact directly with the matrix. And Once the job was complete the AI was sure to quickly inform Hetsaby's spirit so it could magically enhance the newly initiated technomancers. Preference was given to new recruits of former Otaku tribes now technomancer tribes and whoever met the AI's fancy. ( Remember Mirage tried to pull this trick with the entire Seattle matrix so this AI might not be so picky ) There. Are there any holes in that theory? or is it twisted enough to work? Head pain lessening..... :rotate: |
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Sep 17 2005, 09:52 PM
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#137
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Knight Templar Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 212 Joined: 20-June 04 From: Ipswich, UK Just South of the Stinkfens Member No.: 6,424 |
Technomancers were created by a group of hyper intelligent pan-dimensional beings - aka the white mice?
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Sep 17 2005, 10:33 PM
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#138
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118 |
I knew it. |
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Sep 17 2005, 11:11 PM
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#139
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 399 Joined: 27-May 04 Member No.: 6,361 |
Alternatly, there are various other options.
Perhaps an AI, or more likely the strange virus, began reconfiguring people using a psychotropic black ic effect. (It is possible that the "egg" used to begin this new virus was the same virus that created the first crash.) This may be suggested during Captain Chaos' death fiction in System Failure. Why are new Technomancers appearing once again? Hard to say, perhaps the ghosts in the machine have something to do with that... Say, perhaps, that a far large percentage of the world had potential magical powers, or perhaps merely very weak magical powers. You could treat technomancers as a ver specialized, very limted kind of adept that had surpassed the normal limitation of not being able to interact with radio waves and similar technological phenomina. Stir these a bit and see if you find this combination comfortable. :) |
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Sep 17 2005, 11:40 PM
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#140
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
Oddly enough, I'm more comfortable with a great dragon-AI conspriacy working together to reconfigure mentally and magically people into technomancers than with a large percentage of the world including apparrently all Otaku having the magical potential to become technomancer adepts. I like the idea that magic is restricted to 1% of the population. ( okay maybe a little higher with elves ) The problem is that technomancers emit commlink signals. People do not have the biological capability or potential to do that. Outside of magic I don't see how that is possible in SR. You can't reconfigure a brain to emit them. But on the flip side reconfiguring a person's brain to work with the matrix without technological help is a bit too far for magic to go. Besides it was always the perview of the great resonance or AIs before. So it comes down to technomancers being the product of both magic and technology working in cooperation with each other. Coordination on that level would require a conspiracy between a powerful magic entity and a powerful technological entity. ( Unless there exists a powerful magical/technological force out there, but I just don't want to consider that ) |
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Sep 17 2005, 11:46 PM
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#141
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 399 Joined: 27-May 04 Member No.: 6,361 |
I imagine it would also rely on how knowledgable AI are about magical people... I imagine few and far between even begin to understand it.
On a side note, I read an SR fiction.... forgot which one it was, that mentioned an Ancient Elf who apparently was responible for a great many innovations throughout history, and who (it seemed to almost suggest) created both the virus responsible for the first crash as well as the program responsible for Echo Mirage (and thus the Matrix). Its another stretch and conspiracy theory but perhaps doable. |
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Sep 18 2005, 12:12 AM
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#142
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
I believe you are referring to Leonardo. While he did seem to possess the technology for Otaku-like abilties from what I read he didn't seem associated with them. Besides he may still be under not so sunny watch of Lofwyr. Second it is actually fairly hinted if not outright stated in the first two books of the Dragonheart trilogy who developed the virus that caused the first crash. It was not Leonardo.
True, which is what makes Hetsaby such a good choice. She has a tribe of technoshamans living with her on Mount Shasta who no doubt mentioned her name during their matrix travels. If an AI wanted to find a powerful magical ally, she'd be at the top of any list. |
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Sep 18 2005, 12:31 AM
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#143
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
This is not true. It seems you can even hot-sim VR through trodes (incidentally the Combat Mage sample character has the gear for this).
You don't need to get cut to experience the full Matrix. You just strap on a set of trodes hook it up through a sim module to your commlink and then log onto the Matrix. To switch from cold sim VR (you only take stun damage) to hot sim (you take physical damage, but get an extra 2 die, and a 3rd Init Pass) you can illegally remove/disable the safety features of a regular sim module. P.S. Also you aren't nearly as out of it as before either. You can actively concentrate to return to your attention back to your meat body, you just have serious penalties to do or see anything there while the VR is running (-6 die, although there seems to be an error surrounding the exact penalty). |
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Sep 18 2005, 01:05 AM
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#144
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 399 Joined: 27-May 04 Member No.: 6,361 |
Ah. That would explain that. I only have the second book, so I figure I'll reread it. Thanks for that. :) |
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Sep 19 2005, 03:12 PM
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#145
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
The penalty in VR for using your meat body for actions is -4. For a meat body perception test while in VR there is a -6 dice penalty.
Anyways mfb, I've just about completely writen you off as someone who refuses to even remotely accept technomancers no matter the explanation. Nothing seems to be good enough for you and you're not really bringing anything to the table of discussion here other than "well thats not phyicaly possible right now". I'm sorry 65 years in the future when magic exists I'm prety sure anything can happen. Furthermore its not possible for people to throw fireballs in reality either. Yes you accept that because its labeled magic. How quaint that a little word thats 5 letters long can make you believe in the impossible, but if someone were to suggest the idea of technomancers and their abbilities and no one atm quite knows how they do what they do you automaticaly scream foul. :please: |
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Sep 19 2005, 03:15 PM
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#146
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
That seems to be written as a -4 penalty on the Initiative roll. The -6 dice was for perception test. It isn't clear what penalty to assign to other rolls isn't entirely clear. |
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Sep 19 2005, 03:30 PM
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#147
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
She can go wireless across the room is the way it was explained to me. *shrug* But no need to bring it up as long as you realize that you can in fact not worry about writing a thesis about why it works. Because you don't need to. It is something that is not explained because in the game world it isn't explainable. There are guesses and wild theories. To repeat; it is not suppose to be explainable within the game world exactly how they do what they do. P.S. That means it likely that whatever fan fiction you write up is likely to be wrong to at least some extent. So when the metaplot revealed more and your fan fiction becomes defunct you'll be back whining and bitching and moaning....and the cycle would continue. Break the cycle, just play the game. |
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Sep 19 2005, 06:52 PM
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#148
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
err, it just hit me that well a rfid works by using the energy that comes in to send a signal out.
could it be that somehow the technomancer body is able to absorb the energy of the wmi broadcast signals and then turn this energy into a new broadcast? this would atleast get past the energy production problem, but what is needed to absorb and manipulate said energy? |
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Sep 19 2005, 06:53 PM
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#149
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
gaming is fan fiction, idiot. jesus, you're dim.
there are plenty of things in SR that are inexplicable. some of them are pretty stupid, especially if you pay even the slightest amount of attention to real-world science. i avoid those things--for instance, not one of my characters has ever owned or used a AVS. the problem with technomancers is, you really can't avoid them without excising a major portion of the game. excising, in fact, a portion of the game that doubly holds particular interest for me: i'm interested in the Matrix, and i'm interested in otaku. many of the same problems with biological radio emission apply to biological radio manipulation, hobgoblin. also, the game mechanics don't really back that up. if you put a technomancer in a Faraday cage, the game mechanics indicate that he'll still be able to transmit (though obviously, unless there's a wireless rcvr in the cage with him, the signal won't go anywhere). i'll admit that biological radio manipulation is much, much less dumb than biological radio emission. |
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Sep 19 2005, 07:17 PM
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#150
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 445 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,567 |
Yeah I believe theres a disclaimer somewhere in the book taht the game mechanics will not represent every rl situation nor are they supposed to. So basing your argument off the game mechanics, you might as well be arguing the world is completely flat because your map looks flat. |
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