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> Arrrggg, Technomancers
Nikoli
post Sep 21 2005, 02:40 PM
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Honestly, it reminds me of Dan Simmons Hyperion Cantos, the second half of the series, Rise and Fall of Endymion. One character had access to what was referred to as Planck Space and could communicate, travel, perceive across the universe at a whim.I wonder if that is the direction of technomancers in the later fiction waiting to be written.
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Autarkis
post Sep 21 2005, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 21 2005, 10:22 AM)
The other issue is "what happened to all the cyberware"?  If there are otaku out there that survived (as implied by the fiction about technomancers in SR4, although I will note that System Failure states that many of them die during the Matrix Crash 2.0) and there were technomancers born out of the Matrix Crash (from being jacked in during the Crash, as stated in the technomancer piece in System Failure), then what happened to all of that cyberware?  Or are there whole generations of technomancers that lose Resonance for simply having a little datajack?

What happened to the cyberware? They probably still have it and lost Resonance. So is the price an Otaku pays to not Fade (old definition) and keep their abilities, though somewhat changed.

So I would think there is a whole generation of technomancers that start with lower Resonance because of cyberware

/edit grammar errors :eek:
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hahnsoo
post Sep 21 2005, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (Autarkis @ Sep 21 2005, 09:44 AM)
So I would think there is a whole generation of technomancers that with lower Resonance.

I'd like to point out that there is only "one" generation of Technomancers, unless there is evidence that there is a distinction between pre-Crash Technomancers and post-Crash Technomancers. From the description in the book, Technomancers are either surviving otaku or folks who were caught jacked-in during the Crash... there is no mention of any folks becoming Technomancers several years after the Crash. This means that at least the old otaku would be cybered with a minimum of a datajack and a "Sim Module" (ASIST converter).
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Sep 21 2005, 02:56 PM
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QUOTE (Nikoli)
Honestly, it reminds me of Dan Simmons Hyperion Cantos, the second half of the series, Rise and Fall of Endymion.

Hyperion was cool - Endymion... well, a bit pathetic. ;)

Actually, SR4 is more like the dataspheres in those books.
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Nikoli
post Sep 21 2005, 03:06 PM
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Honestly i loved Endymion. not afraid to admit the ending made me weep, no mean feat for a sci-fi book. But the wireless world definitely had that feel to me.
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blakkie
post Sep 21 2005, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 21 2005, 08:52 AM)
... there is no mention of any folks becoming Technomancers several years after the Crash.

There is a mention of there possibily being latent Technos, though that still in someone that was connected to the Matrix during the Crash.
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Nikoli
post Sep 21 2005, 03:17 PM
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Why do I suddenly see Technomancers being the bridge for spreading a computer virus into a biological form among the population?
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hahnsoo
post Sep 21 2005, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 21 2005, 08:52 AM)
... there is no mention of any folks becoming Technomancers several years after the Crash.

There is a mention of there possibily being latent Technos, though that still in someone that was connected to the Matrix during the Crash.

Page reference? And what I meant was someone becoming a Technomancer independent of being an otaku or the Matrix Crash 2.0.
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blakkie
post Sep 21 2005, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 21 2005, 10:15 AM)
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 21 2005, 08:52 AM)
... there is no mention of any folks becoming Technomancers several years after the Crash.

There is a mention of there possibily being latent Technos, though that still in someone that was connected to the Matrix during the Crash.

Page reference? And what I meant was someone becoming a Technomancer independent of being an otaku or the Matrix Crash 2.0.

Page 70.

As for generations, the Otaku are sort of a different generation of Technos, but only from a source perspective, not a time perspective. I suspect that as the metaplot evolves that the authors will open new paths for Technos to come into being. With only 5 years since the crash, and less since the recognized existance of Technos, there hasn't even been time to evaluate the children of Technos.
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prionic6
post Sep 21 2005, 03:37 PM
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@FireVenom:

If Technomancers are communicating with the Matrix via other means than radiowaves, why don't their powers work when there is a wired matrix node nearby but no wireless access? I think we should "investigate" in the direction of Transys-Erika. After all the whole thing runs on their protocols. We need an extraction of one of their eggheads.
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hahnsoo
post Sep 21 2005, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 21 2005, 10:25 AM)
Page 70.

Carrie was a Matrix Broker in the Boston Stock Exchange when the Crash 2.0 hit. I was asking for a reference to anywhere that lists technomancers created independent of that event or not being a prior otaku.
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Shadow_Prophet
post Sep 21 2005, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 21 2005, 11:03 AM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 21 2005, 10:25 AM)
Page 70.

Carrie was a Matrix Broker in the Boston Stock Exchange when the Crash 2.0 hit. I was asking for a reference to anywhere that lists technomancers created independent of that event or not being a prior otaku.

QUOTE
pg 232
It took several years for the new rumors and reports to
cohere, but undoubtedly something was diff erent. A new generation
of otaku had been born—only this time they were no
longer just children. Most of the young otaku of old had also
undergone a transformation, and they found that their powers
no longer faded with age.


That suggests to me 2 things. One not all technomancers were otaku. Secondly that not all otaku are now technomancers.

There is nothing saying that there have been technomancers that have resulted from anything but the crash of '64 BUT its also rather specific that this is a new phenomenon that no one's completely sure about. I've looked hard as I could for evidence talking about post crash technomancers, but so far nada. But its pretty clear that no one (in the game world) knows for sure.

QUICK EDIT:

Quick edit, If you'll notice that even 6 years after the crash technomancers are kinda like what otaku originaly were when they were first introduced. Rumor, posibility ect. Though at this point they're slightly beyond that moving up a bit but still a complete mystery.
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blakkie
post Sep 21 2005, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 21 2005, 10:03 AM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 21 2005, 10:25 AM)
Page 70.

Carrie was a Matrix Broker in the Boston Stock Exchange when the Crash 2.0 hit. I was asking for a reference to anywhere that lists technomancers created independent of that event or not being a prior otaku.

...and i qualified what i said as thus initially. Now don't make me get out my dead fish to wack you. :P Thus there are possibily still Technos surfacing from that event.
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hahnsoo
post Sep 21 2005, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
..and i qualified what i said as thus initially. Now don't make me get out my dead fish to wack you. :P Thus there are possibily still Technos surfacing from that event.

Well, your page reference did not answer my question. Sorry, but I stated what I was looking for, and your answer failed to satisfy me. It's perfectly alright, but I'm just saying (again) that we have no evidence so far of any Technomancers that aren't from the Crash or weren't previously otaku.
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Shadow_Prophet
post Sep 21 2005, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 21 2005, 11:16 AM)
..and i qualified what i said as thus initially. Now don't make me get out my dead fish to wack you. :P  Thus there are possibily still Technos surfacing from that event.

Well, your page reference did not answer my question. Sorry, but I stated what I was looking for, and your answer failed to satisfy me. It's perfectly alright, but I'm just saying (again) that we have no evidence so far of any Technomancers that aren't from the Crash or weren't previously otaku.

We also have no eveidence that says all technomancers are from the crash or were otaku. Take that as you will but...
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blakkie
post Sep 21 2005, 04:28 PM
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QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
We also have no eveidence that says all technomancers are from the crash or were otaku. Take that as you will but...

Er, actually we do have such evidence. We just don't have conclusive evidence, but it is close.
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Shadow_Prophet
post Sep 21 2005, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 21 2005, 10:25 AM)
We also have no eveidence that says all technomancers are from the crash or were otaku.  Take that as you will but...

Er, actually we do have such evidence. We just don't have conclusive evidence, but it is close.

Not really. Considering technomancers are still mostly rumors and very little is known of them we really don't have anywhere near enough evidence to say 'all technomancers come from the crash end of story'. Infact the fact they're included in the eddition might suggest that they're not just from there and more will pop up over time. Unless they plan on never advancing past 2070. Granted thats using outside information to speculate and be used to measure things but...
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hahnsoo
post Sep 21 2005, 04:35 PM
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You could lay off the "but..." with ellipses at the end. :) That's the second time on this page.
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Shadow_Prophet
post Sep 21 2005, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo)
You could lay off the "but..." with ellipses at the end. :) That's the second time on this page.

but...
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hahnsoo
post Sep 21 2005, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 21 2005, 11:35 AM)
You could lay off the "but..." with ellipses at the end. :)  That's the second time on this page.

but...

Hehe. :)
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hahnsoo
post Sep 21 2005, 04:47 PM
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Here's a historical question: What game-year was the first rumors about the otaku introduced? The earliest reference that I've found is in the Denver sourcebook (circa 2055), but they did a full-blown reveal of them shortly afterwards in Virtual Realities 2.0 (also 2055).
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blakkie
post Sep 21 2005, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 21 2005, 10:35 AM)
Infact the fact they're included in the eddition might suggest that they're not just from there and more will pop up over time.  Unless they plan on never advancing past 2070. Granted thats using outside information to speculate and be used to measure things but...

*wacks Shadow_Prophet with a dead Metagamer fish*

Well ya, Fanpro is likely to provide some other source of Technos whether it is through inheretance by birth, or through similar conditions created by the Crash produced intensionally or accidentally, or by some way for a non-Techno to be exposed to Submersion whether under their own efforts or by a Techno or AI leading them there.

They just haven't provided any yet.
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Shadow_Prophet
post Sep 21 2005, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo)
Here's a historical question: What game-year was the first rumors about the otaku introduced? The earliest reference that I've found is in the Denver sourcebook (circa 2055), but they did a full-blown reveal of them shortly afterwards in Virtual Realities 2.0 (also 2055).

i <3 VR 2.0
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RunnerPaul
post Sep 21 2005, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo)
The earliest reference that I've found is in the Denver sourcebook (circa 2055), but they did a full-blown reveal of them shortly afterwards in Virtual Realities 2.0 (also 2055).

Bingo. Denver was the introduction of the Otaku fluff, and VR 2.0 gave us the crunch.
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Shadow_Prophet
post Sep 21 2005, 07:07 PM
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I'm going to post some of the stuff from the other thread we were discussing this in.

from halabis
QUOTE
I dont understand where people keep getting the idea that Technomancers dont have datajacks or cyberware. Just because your powergaming chatacter wouldnt have them doesnt mean most technomancers in the Shadowrun universe dont. I would ventuer to guess that most technomancers DO have datajacks. Remember, people in the SR world dont have access to the SR rule book.


from Aku
QUOTE
think that people say technos wont have datajacks come from the fact that their resonance decreases like magic with installer cyber, from what i heard


From Shadow
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE (Halabis)
I dont understand where people keep getting the idea that Technomancers dont have datajacks or cyberware. Just because your powergaming chatacter wouldnt have them doesnt mean most technomancers in the Shadowrun universe dont. I would ventuer to guess that most technomancers DO have datajacks. Remember, people in the SR world dont have access to the SR rule book. 



Why would they have Datajacks? They don't need them to connect to the AR world or the matrix. And that is the problem people have with them, they're vaguely magical but not, nature.





from hahnsoo
QUOTE
The default Technomancer archetype in the book doesn't have any cyberware. They seem to be really pushing this point, for some reason. I don't think any of the magic archetypes have cyberware either, unlike the Combat Mage archetype in SR2. If they wanted Technomancers to have a small amount of cyberware, wouldn't the archetype have it?

I know that when our group finally spits out a technomancer, it will probably have a datajack and/or other mundane cyberware, simply because it makes sense. *shrugs* But I'm not going to defend those elements of technomancers that contradicts the Sixth World game history (or the laws of physics, for that matter). All I'm saying is that there had better be a good explanation for all this when Unwired comes out. I'll be happy to play and enjoy technomancers in our group's games, but I also expect a semi-reasonable explanation for it all.





From Mr. Unpronounceable
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
...System Failure strongly implies that many are folks who were stuck on the Matrix when it crashed, but I can hardly believe that all of them were 'trode users without even the most basic of implants. If the same section in System Failure said something about "the subject's cyberware being spontaneously rejected and had to be removed" then we'd be getting somewhere. 



The initial technomancers are implied to have been some of the folks who were online during the second crash, or surviving Otaku. Most, if not all of these people would have some cyberware.

In the 5 years since then, there have been more people developing technomancer abilities spontaneously - this is where the cyber-free archetypes are being pulled from.


From hahnsoo
QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable @ Sep 21 2005, 01:42 PM)
The initial technomancers are implied to have been some of the folks who were online during the second crash, or surviving Otaku.  Most, if not all of these people would have some cyberware.

In the 5 years since then, there have been more people developing technomancer abilities spontaneously - this is where the cyber-free archetypes are being pulled from. 



But there is no indication in SR4 that these so-called "post-Crash technomancers" even exist. From the references in the book, the technomancers are described as literally being the people who were stuck in the Matrix during the Crash 2.0, and the otaku who have changed since then. There are no references to post-Crash technomancers emerging spontaneously. I double-checked SR4 just to be sure. Even in the flavor text on p70, the "latent technomancer" Carrie was caught in the Crash 2.0 in the East Coast Stock Exchange as a Matrix investor.

I'm not going to deny that it would be a great explanation. But that's not an explanation that is given in SR4. Maybe in Unwired, they'll say that such technomancers occur spontaneously, but so far it isn't in canon.

EDIT: I'm pretty much guilty of cluttering up this thread and taking it way off-topic. Further discussion of technomancers in the appropriate forum here, folks:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...pic=9941&st=225



Ok I think I grabbed most everything there so people can understand where things might be coming from next
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