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Leviathan
Hey, I've been watching Cowboy Beebop recently, and I was wondering how we would go about duplicating the character Spike in SR?
I dont think cyberware would be appropriate, so Adept is probably our best bet.
To start with there would have to be:

Massive Kung-Fu skill

Rather large Gambling skill

Something to reflect how fast his eyes perceive things (for those who havn't seen it, think being able to tell exactly what symbol is going past at any given time on a slot machine)

A phenominal dodging ability

What else?


Anyone have any ideas?
mfb
everybody always chooses adepts when they make a "character X in SR" thread. Spike would, at the very least, have a cybereye in SR. given that he was a triad hitman, i suppose it's possible that he was an adept (what with the triad's magic-heavy leanings), but it's equally possible that the Red Dragon cybered him up. or he could be a cybered adept--that, i think, would fit his character best; the loss of magic is something of a fall from grace, which is definitely a part of who Spike is.
Leviathan
QUOTE (mfb)
everybody always chooses adepts when they make a "character X in SR" thread. Spike would, at the very least, have a cybereye in SR. given that he was a triad hitman, i suppose it's possible that he was an adept (what with the triad's magic-heavy leanings), but it's equally possible that the Red Dragon cybered him up. or he could be a cybered adept--that, i think, would fit his character best; the loss of magic is something of a fall from grace, which is definitely a part of who Spike is.

Hmm.. I guess I havn't watched enough of the series yet to figure things out properly..
mfb
ack. well, i won't say any more. don't want to ruin it for you. it's a great series, especially if you watch it in order.
Leviathan
Yeah, it is rather good smile.gif

So, did you have any other ideas, stat/SR-rules wise about how to put him in Shadowrun?
hyzmarca
I don't believe that Spike's fake eye is cyber. He appears to have poor depth perception in one of his fights with Vicious. We see he aiming as Vicious from a first person view but his vision becomes blurry as Vicious charges and he misses. Of course, the blurry vision could be related to wound modifiers, but I doubt it. In the same scene it appears that blood was flowing into his fake eye from a head wound but that didn't bother him at all. Had the eye been cyber the blood would have further obstructed his vision and he would have, at least, blinked to clear it.
Arethusa
There's a flashback scene in Sympathy for the Devil. His artificial eye is definitely cybernetic. I doubt any more of him is.
hahnsoo
Gee, and I thought someone wanted to make Spike, the head Gremlin from the movie "Gremlins". smile.gif
blakkie
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
Gee, and I thought someone wanted to make Spike, the head Gremlin from the movie "Gremlins". smile.gif

You are old......that is all. nyahnyah.gif
hyzmarca
MR J: I just need you to deliver this awakened pet to a buyer in Hong Kong. It is a rare creature and traficking in such animals is illegal, so I have to avoid the standard courier services. There are three rules that you must observe while transporting the animal. Never get it wet. Never feed it after midnight. And never expose it to sunlight. Sunlight is fatal to it. If you fail to observe these rules you will forfeit the second half of your payment.

Runner: So is that midnight in the time zone we're currently in, midnight here, midnight in Hong Kong, midnight GMT, or what? And what about Daylight Savings Time? And when you say "after" what exactly do you mean? When is it "before midnight"? Dawn? Noon? When? Can we only feed it exactly at midnight on the very second? If so how is it supposed to eat that fast?

Mr J: I don't know.
pragma
Regarding the bounty hunter and not the crafty little monster:

Adept powers:

Improved initiative
Sidestep!
Improved pistols or kung-fu if you can afford it

Cyber:

A cybereye -- ungaesed
possibly a smartgun link -- as I recall he does an awful lot of trick shooting for which the link would be very useful

Edges/flaws:

Will to live
Hunted
SL James
That's hilarious, hyzmarca.
Slacker
Impulsive would be another possible flaw for him.

I'd say computer illiterate would be good since he always just kicks any piece of electronics that isn't working right, but he still uses alot of it, so that probably wouldn't work.

For edges, Daredevil might be a good idea.
bclements
Gremlins, maybe then.
RunnerPaul
While Spike would be cool, I think Ein has more potential for getting integrated into a SR storyline. The only real hurdle is deciding exactly what a "data dog" is, since anime and the different manga versions don't ever really specify.
mfb
i'm not sure if impulsive is the right flaw. maybe some sort of compulsion flaw, where if he hears word about Julia (or Vicious), he immediately drops whatever he's doing to hunt the rumor down. other than that, he's really too lazy to be impulsive.

whether the eye is cyber in the series or not, i think it probably would fit his character better if it were cyber in SR. and since i am the undisputed guru of all things CB, you must all bow to my wisdom.
Snow_Fox
Spike.
make him small, mouthy, near sighted flaw. extra skill in film making. courtside tickets for NY Nicks Basket ball game. BIG EGO.

well you said not the Buffy one.
mfb
hahaha.
FrankTrollman
Spike has no magic. At all. And we know that he has relatively little chrome. That doesn't mean that he's an adept, it means that he's mostly filled with Bioware.

So he has got:

Cybereyes - Rating 2 (.3)
Vision Enhancement 3 [3]
Smartlink [3]
Vision Mag [2]
Plastic Bone Lacing (.5)

Synthacardium 2 (.2)
Suprathyroid Gland (.7)
Enhanced Articulation (.3)
Digestive Expansion (.5)
Muscle Aug 2 (.4)
Muscle Toner 2 (.4)
Platelet Factory (.2)
Damage Compensator 6 (.6)
Reflex Recorder: Unarmed Combar (.1)
Symbiotes 3 (.6)
Synaptic Booster 3 (1.5)

So Spike has an Essence of 0.1, but the only outward sign he shows for it (aside from the thing where he gets 4 initiative passes and rolls 26 dice when on full defense in melee combat), is that he eats like a horse that eats crazy insane people food.

-Frank
hyzmarca
Spike doesn't really eat that much, all things considered. He usually have bell pepers and beef, without the beef. It isn't that he likes it, he hates the stuff. It is just that it is usually the only thing that he and Jet and afford after using their bounty money to pay for damages.

I would say that he is an adept from the way he fights and the way he moves.

Gren is the bioware guy.
Kyuhan
Spike has to be superhumanly fast IMHO. Asimov was so fast he dodged already airborn bullets when he was on bloody eye, and Spike walloped him quite soundly. ABC logic.
maa01
Yeah. And Ed may be a technomancer smile.gif
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (maa01)
Yeah. And Ed may be a technomancer smile.gif

You misspelled "in the SR setting, would pretty much have to" up there. Hope this helps. Have a nice day.
hyzmarca
Nah. Ed is an Otaku who can run Hot ASSIST through a trode rig.

As for Ein, he's more intelligent than any other member of the crew.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Nah. Ed is an Otaku who can run Hot ASSIST through a trode rig.

As for Ein, he's more intelligent than any other member of the crew.

Which episode was it where Ein cracks through some computer security like it was warm butter and Ein was a chainsaw. That part really cracked me up because only Ed noticed it and all she had was a puzzled look. The significance of it was lost on the group, they just said thanks to Ed for cracking it.
blakkie
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Nah. Ed is an Otaku who can run Hot ASSIST through a trode rig.

That's pretty much a Technomancer, well except the part about needing trodes unless they wanted to connect by hardline they don't even need that. By 2070 trodes are good enough that anyone can run hot through them.

QUOTE
As for Ein, he's more intelligent than any other member of the crew.


Hell Hound? wink.gif
Slacker
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
Which episode was it where Ein cracks through some computer security like it was warm butter and Ein was a chainsaw. That part really cracked me up because only Ed noticed it and all she had was a puzzled look. The significance of it was lost on the group, they just said thanks to Ed for cracking it.

That was the episode with the cult being run by a kid hacker that was hooked up to the net even while he was in a comma.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE
As for Ein, he's more intelligent than any other member of the crew.


Hell Hound? wink.gif

Welsh Corgi superotaku.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 24 2005, 01:40 PM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Oct 24 2005, 12:53 PM)
QUOTE
As for Ein, he's more intelligent than any other member of the crew.


Hell Hound? wink.gif

Welsh Corgi superotaku.

considering some of the examples of intelligence displayed by the group throughout the series, it's a tough call. I think even a hellhound might give them a run for their money competing with them on the level of intelligence. nyahnyah.gif
hyzmarca
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 24 2005, 01:40 PM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Oct 24 2005, 12:53 PM)
QUOTE
As for Ein, he's more intelligent than any other member of the crew.


Hell Hound? wink.gif

Welsh Corgi superotaku.

considering some of the examples of intelligence displayed by the group throughout the series, it's a tough call. I think even a hellhound might give them a run for their money competing with them on the level of intelligence. nyahnyah.gif

But can a hellhound deck and (if one consdiers the manga canon) do hellhounds have Sentient Knowbots running data storage in their brains?
Lucifer
For Edges, try Will to Live (for surviving all those times when you take ridiculous amounts of damage no human should be able to sustain) and some level of Ambidexterity, maybe. I say maybe because you might have noticed any time he uses two guns at the same time he has a hell of a lot of trouble hitting anything.

In fact, both times he goes with two gun style he ends up facing off with some mook from about ten feet away, and both times he gets shot before he can put them down. Which also brings us to the fact his Pistol Skill shouldn't be higher than 6 or 7; he's a better shot than the no-name goons, but Faye's the real sharpshooter of the group.

For Flaws, don't forget some Hunted (Vicious), and maybe Oblivious. Yeah, he's got sharp eyes when he's gambling or fighting, but he constantly has bounty marks walk right by him without him noticing, or doesn't notice the TV talking about something immediately important to his situation, etc.
Nikoli
I'm thinking lucky and max luck for 8. remember the episode when he had to make the long shot with his racer's cannon with no targeting computer.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (RunnerPaul @ Oct 24 2005, 12:15 PM)
QUOTE (maa01)
Yeah. And Ed may be a technomancer smile.gif

You misspelled "in the SR setting, would pretty much have to" up there. Hope this helps. Have a nice day.

He also misspelled "Otaku". Ed is very unlike a technomancer, unless I missed her accessing the 'net without gear somewhere in there.

~J
blakkie
She's a latent Technomancer. wink.gif
SL James
And has already been poorly ripped off in SR.
blakkie
Can you make a pair of jeans a knockoff of counterfit Levis? The concept of the Ed character isn't horrible original....but then with so many billions of people before us we do tend to borrow to build upon. In fact it's the main reason we aren't still banging rocks together and flinging feces like our forefathers. We've mostly moved beyond the rock banging.

The flinging not so much.
SL James
hahaha

You really do have a pathological aversion to saying anything bad about them. How sad.
blakkie
QUOTE (SL James)
hahaha

You really do have a pathological aversion to saying anything bad about them. How sad.

1) I haven't read Loose Alliances, and if IIRC that is what are refering too?
2) If by "pathological aversion to saying anything bad about them" you mean "adversion to filling up page after page with angst filled moaning", yes.
3) If by "pathological aversion to saying anything bad about them" you mean that literally and "them" being Fanpro and associated editors, obviously no once you read through the actual contents of all my posts. Do i actually need to bring up examples, or are you just going to go sit in the corner and quietly enjoy snacking on your foot?
mfb
blakkie, your position might be more tenable if you didn't leap to their defense even when you have--by your own admission--not read the material in question and therefore have no fucking clue as to the validity of any claims regarding that material. does james bash fanpro at every opportunity? sure does. but you calling him on it is the pot calling the kettle black--and at least james has read the material and can back up his complaints.

*sigh* i was enjoying this thread, too.
blakkie
QUOTE (mfb @ Oct 24 2005, 07:43 PM)
blakkie, your position might be more tenable if you didn't leap to their defense even when you have--by your own admission--not read the material in question and therefore have no fucking clue as to the validity of any claims regarding that material.

Umm, that actually might be an issue if i disputed it. Did i? No. As far as i understand that particular chapter was written in IC in a persona that is extremely similar to Ed. *shrug*

QUOTE
does james bash fanpro at every opportunity? sure does. but you calling him on it is the pot calling the kettle black--and at least james has read the material and can back up his complaints.


*cough* Oh yes, he's never been known to make extremely dubious claims. rotfl.gif

But that wasn't my point here. SR and literature in general tends to be chock full of echos of past works. Just perusing through this board, and in fact the subject of this thread, shows that SR games are full of recycled themes and character types.

In short, James was bitching about water being wet.

QUOTE
*sigh* i was enjoying this thread, too.


You jumped in a post too late then. frown.gif
mfb
okay. you're doing the thing where you ignore previous posts and make up a new, better reality. that means you win teh argumant! yay!

re: spike. i recall him making some truly impressive shots. for instance, when he bullseyed that "kid", or when he made that shot in his ship while evading the multitude of space death-lasers. spike is as good a shot when nothing's going on as he is when the entire world is exploding around him. that's why, despite the fact that i'm tired of seeing every character conversion be an adept, i think Spike should be an adept--all those crazy stunts he pulls can be easily explained with Centering. modifiers don't matter to him, because he's a mid-grade adept and he just Centers through them.

incidentally, we're forgetting a major chunk of Spike's skillset: flying. that dude is a ballet dancer with a giant cannon, in the cockpit.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (mfb)
i recall him making some truly impressive shots. for instance, when he bullseyed that "kid", or when he made that shot in his ship while evading the multitude of space death-lasers. spike is as good a shot when nothing's going on as he is when the entire world is exploding around him. that's why, despite the fact that i'm tired of seeing every character conversion be an adept, i think Spike should be an adept--all those crazy stunts he pulls can be easily explained with Centering. modifiers don't matter to him, because he's a mid-grade adept and he just Centers through them.


Nah, he's just got a Smartlink II system or even a Smartlink III and vision mag and a damage compensator. He can be really messed up and at long range and have friendlies in and around the line of fire and still not suffer any negative mods.

There's no reason to believe that Spike is in any way magic, when biological enhancement could explain all of it.

QUOTE (mfb)
incidentally, we're forgetting a major chunk of Spike's skillset: flying. that dude is a ballet dancer with a giant cannon, in the cockpit.


Sounds like a Control Rig to me, but since he only has to come up with .2 more essence to fit it in somewhere, he probably just has some alphaware. And a Control Rig.

-Frank
blakkie
QUOTE (mfb)
okay. you're doing the thing where you ignore previous posts and make up a new, better reality. that means you win teh argumant! yay!

rotfl.gif Er, no that is called "clarification to correct a misunderstanding". nyahnyah.gif Enjoy the thread, later.
pragma
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
There's no reason to believe that Spike is in any way magic, when biological enhancement could explain all of it.


In a universe with immortal children, ghosts reaching from other dimensions with the power of Feng Shui and swordsmen who can magically survive firefights I would argue that Spike's abilities don't necessarily point to biological enhancement and away from magic.

It would be more in the vein of the universe to go with biological enhancement, but I think that a more effective model of Spike could be made with adept powers (like SIDESTEP, which that man has in spades). mfb's point regarding centering also makes a great deal of sense.

Further, 26 dice of full defense doesn't exactly scream Spike to me (unless this is SR4 and he's sacrificing an initiative pass to dodge, which also doesn't seem too appropriate).

Finally, I assume this smartlink III is an SR4 device and not a wacky house rule. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Fortune
QUOTE (pragma)
Finally, I assume this smartlink III is an SR4 device and not a wacky house rule. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. SR4 does not assign any designators to the generic Smartlink. smile.gif
pragma
That begs the question of what the hell Frank is talking about.

However, he does have a good point with the VCR. Could be crammed into the adept I suppose -- or make him a vehicle adept with a bit of initiation.
TheNarrator
Or, here's a crazy thought: maybe he's just got lots of skill? Like Pistols 9, Unarmed Combat 10, Fixed Wing Aerospacecraft 7? (Don't know if those are too high or too low... depends on your interpretation, I guess.)

But yeah, there was never anything to point to Spike having any cybernetics other than his eye. Which in SR means he's an adept, as a normal can't keep up (initiative-wise, if nothing else) no matter how good he is. frown.gif
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (pragma)
That begs the question of what the hell Frank is talking about.

The Smartlink II and such were always mostly flavor. In SR4, you get the practical advantages of additional assistance with long range fire by just having a vision mag system. So yeah, Spike negates most any set of modifiers that would apply under normal circumstances.

Spike's normal combat routine against enemies is to take his first initiative pass as Full Defense, at which point he rolls way too many dice for anyone to do anything about. Then he has three more initiateive passes where he beats the living crap out of people.

QUOTE
But yeah, there was never anything to point to Spike having any cybernetics other than his eye.


Which in Shadowrun means that he has non-detectable cyberware like Synaptic Boosters. If he was an adept, he would have been detected as such by the magicians he went up against. The fact that he was able to skate past them without triggering alarms indicates that he has no magical talent.

-Frank
Fortune
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
If he was an adept, he would have been detected as such by the magicians he went up against. The fact that he was able to skate past them without triggering alarms indicates that he has no magical talent.

Or a decent level of Masking. wink.gif
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Oct 26 2005, 02:46 PM)
If he was an adept, he would have been detected as such by the magicians he went up against. The fact that he was able to skate past them without triggering alarms indicates that he has no magical talent.

Or a decent level of Masking. wink.gif

True.

One could logically conclude that he is either a multiple grade initiate with Masking and Centering, or that he simply has a lot of bioware. Based on his past history, and the fact that the magicians who knew him a long time ago don't seem to know about his superior combat abilities and his former triad associates do... I'd say it was probably the latter.

Adept with Masking can't be ruled out for just about anybody, but there's no pressing reason to believe that he has any adept powers at all when he could get much the same effect with a Synaptic Boost, a Synthacardium, and some Reflex recorders.

In fact, I'm not seeing someone being able to get Spike's primary skill-set with less than about 10 magic worth of adept powers, but I was able to cover all of his idiosyncracies (including his ability to eat things that I wouldn't) on less than 6 essence. The bioware option seems pretty clearly the better choice. Not the only choice, just the best.

-Frank
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